Interior refurb

[911Gal]

Looking to redo carpet and seats in the Targa. What is the black coating under the carpet? It is currently very cracked and uneven. What is the best way to remove it? Help.

[Jack Olsen]

Heat and patience. Do it where you've got good ventilation, too.

[rfn026]

That's sound deadner. You might want to leave it in place - or replace it with something else. I removed all of my sound deadner - including the pad in the engine compartment. I think it sounds really nice. A friend says he can't hear himself think in my car. I have to admit a conversation at anything over 40 mph is really not possible. Who cares though?

Richard

[911Gal]

I do want to replace it. I want to know if someone has a suggested product to spray the floor with.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Why would you remove it and then put something else in there? The cracked state of the stuff is normal; it simply shrinks a bit here and there over time and that happens. If you want to remove it for lightness--typically you'll save 15/20 pounds if you go to great effort to get it all out--do so and simply paint the pan with whatever good paint you wish to use. If you want to remove it and replace it with new sound-deadener, your replacement will also soon show cracks, that's normal, doesn't mean it isn't fuctioning to deaden sound.

[911Gal]

Its not just cracked it has flaked completely off and is missing about 30-40% of it. I would like to redo it so the car is completely covered. If it was possible to just top coat it and get the same effect I would be happy to do it, but I am pretty sure that in order to get a nice even coat I am going to have to remove and reapply.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I'd Google for something from the company called Wurth (German). As I remember, Wurth makes the stuff called Schutz, or something like that, that's used on Porsches as undercoating and the semi-flexible stuff that is painted over the the bottoms of the rocker panels. The probably make something quite similar as an interior sound-deadener.

[axvel]

Dynamite / fatpad?

[jhubs]

Stephanie,
There are several products out there that you can use to spray or paint on a sound dampening material on the floor of your Porsche. The only problem is that they take several days to dry completely. If they are water based products, it could be 72 hours or more before you can put your carpet back down because of the moisture evaporation from the spary-on or paint-on material.

I'm starting a complete interior replacement on Monday (2/18) and I will use these products...http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi
I have done a LOT of research and the Spectrum Spray (you can paint it on) seems like the best way for you to "top coat it" like you want to do and save yourself a lot of work removing the old material. You would gain some sound deadening too. Two coats=a 2mm layer. One gallon should be plenty for the floor. Then after giving it a week or three (of dry weather) to cure, as it is water based, you could glue (3M 90) a layer of Over Kill closed cell foam down to the Spectrum paint layers and then lay your carpet on top of the Over Kill (don't glue the carpet down to the Over Kill in case you want to remove it later). The Over Kill foam is only 1/8 inch thick, but will provide some extra sound deadening and a "carpet pad" under your carpet. Don't use open cell foam!

I will put down a layer of Damplifier (it's like Dynamat, but better?)
and then glue down a layer of Over Kill closed cell foam, then lay my new carpet over the Over Kill foam. That's the plan for the entire interior of my 87 911 coupe.
I have talked with Anthony at Second Skin Audio and he was very helpful! Get on the website and call him and tell him what you want to do regarding the floor. pm me if you have Q's.

Good Luck,
Jerry

[Pingo]

It's quite easy to remove. 2 - 4 hours with a heat gun and your car should be around 6.5 kg lighter.

[sjf911]

Actually, 10-15 pounds of dry ice crushed and spread over the floor pan. When the floor is really frozen bang on it with a hammer and the old sound pad shatters and can then be vacuumed up.
By the way, the second-skin Damplifier is superb. Much better than the rubberized asphalt alternatives.

[randywebb]

"I have done a LOT of research... "

- Not sure what you mean - what was the research? What were the methods? And what were the results?

[jhubs]

Randy,
Great Question! And, it deserves an answer. "...a LOT of research..." for me means a LOT of time reading, finding out as much information as I can on a subject, talking to and asking questions of experts, and then making my best "guess" for what fits my needs. Scientific?, probably not, but I think we all want the best information and advice we can get. And, I appreciate the Pelican 911 group when they pass that information on.

The Pelican Forum is a fantastic storehouse of knowledge and information and many of the posts I have read lead me in directions that I had not thought of before, and for that I'm very grateful. I have read posts that I have questioned and took lightly and others I have taken very seriously.

I have read many of your post and I respect your opinion...mostly and anyone who has posted 8,000+ times is either a hermit with nothing else to do or very knowledgeable individual regarding P-cars. I would highly suspect the latter is true!

I would seriously consider changing my view about something when I read posts that take an opposite view just because I am very open minded. My learning curve regarding P-cars is very steep at this time. And, sjf911's idea of using crushed dry ice is so good, I might just try that one myself!

Here are just a few of the sites that I visited and studied when I was looking for solutions to my noise problem and possible approaches I could take when my interior is removed and before I install the new interior.

I hope these may be helpful to someone else who is considering sound dampening their Porsches.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
http://www.silentrunning.us/html/sr_500.html
http://www.epinions.com/content_113637494404
http://www.miata.net/products/audio/cascade.html
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?pg=1&p=ps
http://www.mainstreet-audio.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VB1X-1G&Category_Code=DLIQ
http://www.b-quiet.com/?googleads
Dynamat for sound deadening?
http://www.automedia.com/Automotive/Sound/Dampening/res20041001sd/1
https://www.fatmat.com/
http://www.dynamat.com/
http://www.raamaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?_scb=2

I start my project on Monday and I am armed with enough knowledge... yes, very, very dangerous!!! Wish me luck! I'll post pictures...if things go well.
Jerry

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I haven't used the dry-ice method, I simply removed all mine purely physically, with a putty knife and the like. Came out pretty easily, didn't use a heat gun.

I have read an entire range of opinions of the "legendary" dry-ice method, and they have ranged from "worked great" to "enormous PitA, didn't do a thing for me."

Make sure you're dealing with advice from people who have actually done it and not those who have simply "heard about it." I'm in the latter camp.

[K9Torro]

Hey since you are somewhat close to where I am I will throw this your way,

I have a local guy who does excellent work on seats he did mine there are some pic's posted just do a search under my screen name to see them, and the cost can't be beat,

If you are interested let me know by PM and I will get you his info, he is about 2 hours South of the GA/SC state line if this helps,

Todd

[adeihl]

I JUST did this... Although i just took a scraper and worked at it like i was using an ice pick on an angle. It all came up with about 2 hours of "hacking" i replaced it with DYNAMAT.

Mine was all cracked and bouncing around under the mats ( about 30% of it was cracked off. Vibrations are stopped easyest by supple material. Just like DYNAMAT, its ability to dampen vibrations lessen with colder ( stiffer) and get better when it is warmer ( to a degree) if it is too hot, the sound dampening ability will go down again.

[sjf911]

I am actually in the middle of my interior redo. I started with a putty knife in a car with winter garage temps of about 40F and found it very tedious to pry off the old material. Placed 10lbs of dry ice and waited an hour. Went out with a hammer and in less than 15 minutes had turned the material to fragments. After reading the sound deadener showdown, I elected to use 2 layers of SecondSkin Damplifier (not pro) as a base on the "firewall" in back. I used the left-over fragments as base strips on the floorpan then covered the floor with 2 layers of eDead rubberized asphalt. I have scraped off all of the original fiber pad from the back formed pads and will replace with Dynamat Xtremeliner (foam composite sound barrier) to complete my sound barrier. The weight weenies will cringe at this but I don't want to be wearing hearing aides any sooner than I need to.
There is a clear difference between the SecondSkin material and the eDead. Second skin is thicker but more pliable and has a thicker foil backing. It also should handle the higher temps of the engine firewall better. I didn't think this was an issue for the floorpan so went with the less expensive eDead.

[randywebb]

Good luck Jerry - I look forward to the pics.

Thanks for all the URLs.
Did you calculate the weights per unit absorption of the products?

Also, did did you look at the attenuation vs. frequency?

I started the former, but never completed it.

[randywebb]

Here are some prev. threads on Pelican re this process:

Sound Deadening question.
- has internal links

You may also want to address the door wind noise at some point -- there are threads on that too.

[jhubs]

Originally posted by sjf911
I have scraped off all of the original fiber pad from the back formed pads and will replace with Dynamat Xtremeliner (foam composite sound barrier) to complete my sound barrier.

Steve, Could you explain this a little better to me I don't know what "back formed pads" means or where they are. Pictures?

And, Dynamat Xtemeliner is rather thick...how does it compare to one of the Second skin products like OverKill, OverKill Pro, or Luxury Liner? I want to make the best choices for my project and I'm interested in your selection of materials and why? You seem like you have a great plan and I would like to pick your brain here!

I too am concerned about the firewall area and the noise coming through to the interior cabin as I have aftermarket Cams and a "sport Muffler". Those two things combine to make a little more noise back there than the stock 87 911.

Randy has given me some food for thought and I have been reading a lot more info. regarding sound deadening and soundproofing.

Randy, have you decided on your materials for your summer interior project yet? And, what did you do about the back window roof vent noise problem?

Hopefully 911gal will get some help here too...I know I have!

Jerry