what would you do? EFI problems - Page 4

rfuerst911sc · 01-27-2007, 02:01 PM

I will attempt to take some screen shots tomorrow and post them here. Hobieboy I am running a PLX Devices wideband 02 and controller. And when I step on it it bogs and then revs. The strange thing is when I leave all settings the same but switch from speed density to Alpha it runs much better. The AFR stays the same but it just sounds better not sure why that is. I took it out for a quick drive and it runs fair lower than 4000 rpm's but when higher she falls flat like she's running out of fuel. If anyone is in Central Florida I'm willing to pay to get this running correctly.

hobieboy · 01-27-2007, 02:08 PM

I suspect yours is truly a tuning issue - which is a good thing

If you can post your msq file somewhere, we can try to take a look. But the behavious sounds like you either have too much / not enough accelEnrichment when you step on it.
When I set mine wrong (too much), the car is UN-DRIVABLE. And that was all because of how I change the accel threshold - I had to turn around & reset that parameter after 1 block.

rfuerst911sc · 01-27-2007, 02:13 PM

hobieboy what screen in MS are you going into to set accel enrichment? And which specific item are you changing? I'm running MSII board version 3.0 with Megatune 2.25.

mb911 · mb911's Garage

richard, Patrick is very sharp with this as well between tony and him and a few others you should be good to go..

hobieboy · 01-27-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rfuerst911sc
hobieboy what screen in MS are you going into to set accel enrichment? And which specific item are you changing? I'm running MSII board version 3.0 with Megatune 2.25.

Well, I'm runnin MS-1, so it may be a little different.

The accelEnrichment thresholds are set under Basic Setting/Acceleration Wizzard. As a start, I'd set the (MAPdot/TPSdot) threshold to be very high so that it won't kick in.

Drive the car & accelerate slowly so you don't risk bogging her down and see how it feels. Last time I set the accel stuff to be too sensitve, the car simply rocks/jerks in all condition and it was un-drivable.

rfuerst911sc · 01-28-2007, 08:03 AM

O.K. how do I show you my MSQ file? I tried to copy and paste but no go. As far as a update I worked with Jim this morning via phone and the car runs and drives fair. She seems lean at full throttle but runs fair. I keep getting TPS enrichment blips at idle no matter what I set enrichment settings to. And I think we determined that my O2 sensor is not working correctly it may be clogged from running rich for a year. Does anyone know if a PLX Devices O2 sensor is anything special? Jim thinks I won't make any progress until I get the O2 working properly. Any suggestions/ideas along that line?

TimT · 01-28-2007, 09:38 AM

I think the PLX uses a 7057 sensor, which is a very common/inexpensive sensor. My PLX 02 sensors are at the shop so I cant check for sure.

If the connection looks like this

use a 7057 sensor

heres one source...they used to be a bit cheaper ($40)

https://www.parts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=searchCatalogOEM&siteid=213799

rfuerst911sc · 01-28-2007, 10:52 AM

According to the PLX website the O2 sensor is 79.99 which isn't too bad. I have a local PLX dealer near me that I'm going to call tomorrow to see if he has one. I think if I get the O2 working correctly I can get this tuned now maybe by going to a local dyno. I still don't fully understand how this works but I'm getting there. Is there any calibration needed once the new O2 sensor is installed? I have calibrated in Megatune the sensor I have now to 0 volts=10-1 and 5 volts=20-1 per the instructions that came with the sensor. I used "generic" wideband in Megatune vs. Innovate.

jpnovak · 01-28-2007, 11:12 AM

I would check to make sure you have the WBO2 configured properly before replacing. Even if run really rich it shouldn't foul unless you ran leaded race gas.

To set the right WBO2 for PLX, exit Megatune by selecting File > configurator.

On the left side of the screen Open the CarX tree and then open settings.ini, then Settings and choose Lambda Sensor.

At the top of the code listing on the right will be a pull down menu. Select "INNOVATE_0_5_LINEAR "Innovate, PLX 0-5V 10-20:1 AFR""

Then Save and go back to MegaTune. Under Settings > EGO Contol select "Single Wide Band". I suspect the stock settings for rpm and TPS actions will be fine to start. Burn to ECU and then close.

BTW, I would not spend any money on dyno time until you can get decent tuning first. Start by following the instructions in this link. It is a well written route to getting you driving on the road.

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/street_tuning_your_megasquirt_ems.htm

Ignore the spark directions for now. This should get you running pretty well. When you get to the high load areas of tuning find a hill. HMM Orlando you could use a I4 flyover.

Hope this helps.

rfuerst911sc · 01-28-2007, 11:44 AM

jpnovak I just tried what you suggested and I kinda got there. I don't see a "drop down" that I can select different brands of sensor, I do see a listing on the right side of the page and there is a listing for Innovate 0-5 but nothing for PLX? Is that what you mean?

rfuerst911sc · 01-28-2007, 11:49 AM

Brain fart I found it. It was set to "Innovate _0_5 linear Innovate,PLX 0-5V 10-20:1 AFR". Does that mean it was configured correctly?

hobieboy · 01-28-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rfuerst911sc
O.K. how do I show you my MSQ file? I tried to copy and paste but no go. As far as a update I worked with Jim this morning via phone and the car runs and drives fair. She seems lean at full throttle but runs fair. I keep getting TPS enrichment blips at idle no matter what I set enrichment settings to. And I think we determined that my O2 sensor is not working correctly it may be clogged from running rich for a year. Does anyone know if a PLX Devices O2 sensor is anything special? Jim thinks I won't make any progress until I get the O2 working properly. Any suggestions/ideas along that line?

If you can't upload it as an attachment here, then you can either PM me (or tony as he suggested earlier).
If you have set your TPSdot to very high and it is still triggering accelEnrich @ idle, then you should take a closer look at your TPS reading from the log and see if there is indeed noise in the signal.
A VERY good ground is very important for MS (I suspect any EFI) installation.
Definitely agree with jpnovak to get a basic map working - something that allows you to drive, accelerate gently before hitting the dyno.

rfuerst911sc · 01-28-2007, 12:38 PM

I have my TPS Dot set at 10 which isn't that high I guess I should change it to maybe 40. I sent Tony my MSQ file via email but haven't figured out how to do it here. I have multiple grounds from the ECU/Relay board going to the engine which I thought was enough. My TPS sensor is only mounted about 1 foot or so from the relay board. I am useing a Megasquirt relay board. Is there any "noise" filters that can be installed? I'm nervous about this O2 sensor as it appears I have it configured/calibrated correctly but it's still reading rich when I believe it is not rich at least at idle.

tbitz · 01-28-2007, 05:57 PM

Richard,

I had a quick look at your configuration file.

If your injectors are 30lbs/hr, then your "Required Fuel" value of 6.9 is wrong. You should change it to 10.7 for 30lbs/hr injectors at 3.0bar fuel pressure. This will richen your fuel mixture accross the board from what you have now.

Next thing that will cause problems is the fact you got 6 injections per engine cycle. This is going to require very small pulse widths at idle which will be hard to control. I suggest you change this to 2 injections per engine cycle.

Your VE table does NOT look like it has had any real tuning done to it (very flat).

rfuerst911sc · 01-29-2007, 01:39 AM

Tony I am running 22lb. Boxster injectors that I just installed on Saturday. And yes that VE table was just generated yesterday as a new baseline so it has had virtually no tuning done to it. Interesting you suggest 2 injections per cycle, it has been suggested to me by another MS person with lots of tuning history that 6 injections is the way to go. But he does not have Porsche specific tuning knowledge can you expand on the 2 injections per cycle reasoning? Thanks for your input.

mb911 · mb911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by rfuerst911sc
Tony I am running 22lb. Boxster injectors that I just installed on Saturday. And yes that VE table was just generated yesterday as a new baseline so it has had virtually no tuning done to it. Interesting you suggest 2 injections per cycle, it has been suggested to me by another MS person with lots of tuning history that 6 injections is the way to go. But he does not have Porsche specific tuning knowledge can you expand on the 2 injections per cycle reasoning? Thanks for your input.

remember this is tony's thing and he has been doing longer then most.. He has always helped me and many others out his MS forum and others. Try it out worth a try

hobieboy · 01-29-2007, 05:33 AM

Richard,
I am also running 2 injections per cycle. Take a 2nd look at the MS fuel formula (http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/minj.htm), increasing # of injections will lower your duty cycle, but since variable amount of fuel will be injected during the opening time, that might contribute to unstable idle, plus Tony's comment on very short idle PW per injection cycle.
For grounds, make sure your grounds are star-wired. And take a look at your logs to see if you have any noise in any of the sensors, RPM, & voltage.

Mike Bonkalski · 01-29-2007, 06:52 AM

You need to make sure that you have disabled your EGO control during tuning. Megatune > Fuel Setup > EGO control > Drop down box --> Disable.

I would also recommend going with two (2) squirts per cycle.

rfuerst911sc · 01-29-2007, 02:10 PM

Today I purchased a new O2 sensor and will install it this weekend. Per PLX feedback I received today via email no calibration is needed so I hope it works when I plug the new one in. I will tune all weekend based on the feedback provided here and hope for the best. Patrick I tried to send you my MSQ file but I couldn't to the email address you provided. Tbitz I did send you my MSQ file, it's different than the one I sent you yesterday. Thanks everyone.

tbitz · 01-29-2007, 07:20 PM

Got your new MSQ file and the note that you are running 22lbs injectors.

The "REQUIRED FUEL" parameter is still wrong for your 22lbs injectors.
If you are running 3.0bar fuel pressure and I assume you have a 3.0L engine, then the "REQUIRED FUEL" value should be 14.6.

Your MSQ file shows a value of 10.8 which means you are running less fuel per squirt than expected.

Also change the squirts down to 2 per engine cycle, otherwise it will be hard to tune idle. Trust me on this.