1974 Carrera 3.0 RS

[skipdup]

Can someone tell me what a 1974 Carrera 3.0 RS is? I've searched and can find plenty of info on '74 Carrera's (both US & RoW) and '74 Carrera RSR's. But, nothing on the 3.0 RS (the boards search limitation of three letters or more doesn't help in this particular case).

Is the '74 Carrera 3.0 RS just a wide bodied (930-like) 911 with a MFI 3.0 liter -- vs. the narrow bodied with CIS 2.7 liter (US) or MFI 2.7 (RoW) Carrera? I'm assuming it was a special car not imported to the US?

Also, is a '74 Carrera RSR the same as an IROC? Is the RSR similar in appearance to the RS?

And finally, is anyone familiar with the difference between the RSR and the RS?

Thanks!
SKip

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by skipdup

Is the '74 Carrera 3.0 RS just a wide bodied (930-like) 911 with a MFI 3.0 liter -- vs. the narrow bodied with CIS 2.7 liter (US) or MFI 2.7 (RoW) Carrera? I'm assuming it was a special car not imported to the US?

Also, is a '74 Carrera RSR the same as an IROC? Is the RSR similar in appearance to the RS?

And finally, is anyone familiar with the difference between the RSR and the RS?

Thanks!
SKip

Pretty much and pretty much

RSR are pure race cars, RS are track oriented but streetable.


'74 Carrera RS 3.0


'74 Carrera 2.7

the Carrera RS 2.7 would lok the same

'74 RSR

[obrut]

"Is the '74 Carrera 3.0 RS just a wide bodied (930-like) 911 with a MFI 3.0 liter "

pretty much, here some pics of a factory RHD:

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/3293976/1/182902594#182902594

[TRE Cup]

That is a great shot that Bill V. posted of the RS 3.0. You can see how funky the front flares are compared to later turbo cars

The RS 3.0 , as a homologation car , was a lot closer to race car than the rs 2.7 lightweight: Items that were above and beyond the earlier 2.7 Lightweight
Dual master cylinders, RSR rear control arms, forged steering rack support, 100 liter plastic fuel tank, 917 brakes with adjustable dual master cylinder set up, trans oil cooler with lines to the front loop, center mount rsr oil cooler with deflector panel, 8 and 9 x 15 fuchs, fiberglass front lid, large TUV approved whaletail.
The car also had stitch welding and reinforcements at key places on the chassis. Welded in mounts for the front strut brace. The rear shock support crossmember had oversized tubes to accomodate coil overs in the RSR version

[dd74]

Yes, but what comprised the '74 RSR? What's the difference from that and a 3.0 RS?

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by dd74

Yes, but what comprised the '74 RSR? What's the difference from that and a 3.0 RS?

I think the RSR was twin plugged and had a different type of mechanical induction. I'd think there's (much) more...

Originally Posted by TRE Cup

...
You can see how funky the front flares are compared to later turbo cars
...

I think there's was an Excellence article which discussed these differences. I can't see a difference (though, I'm afraid it's obvious to everyone else). And, I just went down and took a look at my own 930 for reference. Are you able to describe the differences?

Also, are those wheels (in Bill's top pic, of the RS on the track) 8's & 9's? I was thinking they were larger. But, it may just be because I'm not used to the 15" diameter.

This is an intriguing car to me. Anyone know where I could find more information/history/etc? Any books I should try and find?

[Bobboloo]

Between that whale tail and no front spoiler that car must have been pretty nervous at speed.

[JohnJL]

Dammit Bill, why did you have to post that RSR pic. I've just fallen out of love with my toys...

[Bill Verburg]

Please feel free to post many pictures

*The second batch(#501 up) of '73 Carrrera introduced the relocated inner suspension arm pivots 15mm inboard and back 47.5mm, along w/ shorter inner suspension arms, this mod was continued in the '74 Carrera 3.0RS and later the 930(which also raised the pickup point 10mm)

* 917 brakes w/ dual m/c

* 8 & 9 x15 wheels

*215/60 and 235/60 tire

* fIrst street(sorta) use of 9" & 11" flares

*first use of the whale tail which "almost cancels any lift"

*19mm front t-bars(22mm opt), 26mm rear t-bars

*frp bumpers f/r

*CLf = +0.010 5kg lift @152mph

*CLr = +0.025 13kg lift @152mph

in race trim: lower,w/ the larger overhanging rear spoiler
CLf = +0.094 47kg lift @152mph

*CLr = +0.073 38kg lift @152mph

* Bilstein shocks

* std height street, axle raised 18mm for racing

*18mm roll bar f/r early design

* aluminium crankcase

*49/41.5mm valves

*43/43 ports

*230hp @ 6200

*203 lb-ft @ 5000

A search would reveal this info in a Previous thread on the subjuect

[johndglynn]

Originally Posted by skipdup

Anyone know where I could find more information/history/etc? Any books I should try and find?

Paul Frère's book has some excellent info on the 3.0 RS, and his original road test of the car for Road and Track makes great reading: 0-60 in 5 seconds and 125mph average speed over a 75-mile motorway drive! In a normally-aspirated 1974 road car!! Stunning machine and one I have dreamt about riding in at speed most of my life. One day...

[Grady Clay]

Dave (TRE Cup) and all,

Lets document this some more. I flew home from Weissach with a new ‘74RSR 911460xxxx. Was a ‘74RS 3.0 a 911450xxxx? Did these cars have centerlock or 5-bolt? I recall most as 5-bolt but not all. Of course all the RSRs were centerlock.

The ’74 911RS 3.0 is a homologation series as a continuation of the ‘73RS (~1500 produced) so they only needed to make 100 (about 50 were RSRs) so there were actually about 50 RSs.

The engine (911/77) specs seem to be 230 hp @ 6200 (S-cam). I recall measuring more. These were very standard 9.8:1 911S engines built on a 3.0 RSR case, crank & rods and heads (unique cylinder stud spacing). I don’t remember if there were steel or Ti rods. They didn’t have all the RSR stuff (Ti jackshaft, alu sprockets, forged rockers, etc.) Those are very unique engines. There are about 3-4 running around here I bought new from Porsche in ’74-’75. To casually look at them they appear to be a 2.4S.

Best,
Grady

[Bill Verburg]

The '73 IROC cas were 911 460 ****
for insatance 911 460 0035 was a Gulf blue IROC car , #9 at Riverside, #7 at Daytone(Allison) owned by Bob Beasley, also raced at the Daytona 24hr by Mr. Beasley every year from '74 to '83

and
The RS 3.0 also had 911 460 *****

and the RSR had 911 460 ****

[fryardds]

There were 109 '74 3.0L Carreras produced. Only 55 cars were produced as RS cars and 54 were produced as RSR. The serial #s are 9114609012-121. The engine #s started with 6840001.

[fryardds]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Please feel free to post many pictures

*The second batch(#501 up) of '73 Carrrera introduced the relocated inner suspension arm pivots 15mm inboard and back 47.5mm, along w/ shorter inner suspension arms, this mod was continued in the '74 Carrera 3.0RS and later the 930(which also raised the pickup point 10mm)

The change in the trailing arm was made much later in production for the '73 Carrera. I don't have the RS book but I think the change was made to chassis # 1400 something FWIW.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by fryardds

The change in the trailing arm was made much later in production for the '73 Carrera. I don't have the RS book but I think the change was made to chassis # 1400 something FWIW.

Not according to Frère

[javadog]

Originally Posted by fryardds

The change in the trailing arm was made much later in production for the '73 Carrera. I don't have the RS book but I think the change was made to chassis # 1400 something FWIW.

He has it at 1409, although he notes that 43 other cars had it at this point, which I'd wager wera all the cars that had been converted to RSR specs by that point.

JR

[fryardds]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Not according to Frère

My $'s is on Konradsheim on this issue.

[GeorgeK]

Brian is right (as usual). There were only about 40-50 1973 RSs that had the shorter trailing arms. No question there, I have seen enough of them.
The 1974 RS 3.0 had a 9114609XXX VIN sequence. Any 3.0 RS that does not have the 9114609XXX is a fake. Take special notice of the "609" sequence. This is to differentiate them from the street 1974 euro Carrera 2.7 in 1974, 75 and in alesser extent 76.

For the record, this is false:
"The second batch(#501 up) of '73 Carrrera introduced the relocated inner suspension arm pivots 15mm inboard and back 47.5mm, along w/ shorter inner suspension arms, this mod was continued in the '74 Carrera 3.0RS and later the 930(which also raised the pickup point 10mm)"

[wachuko]

Have fun looking here:

http://www.pbase.com/slidevalve911rsr/911rsr_project_cars