please explain coil overs

[garibaldi]

Originally posted by mmastro
I took that advice, too. when I talked to you regarding coil overs! Ha Ha Ha! But I DID reinforce the $hit out of the rear towers.

I still am running this same setup on my 77 930 and couldn't be happier! On the track it feels stuck to the race surface...on the street I do suffer from the-not so-maintained roads in LA, but who cares? I don't! Rear torsion bars were always a royal pain in the a$$ to adjust ride height.

Bling? ok,.... laugh behind my back.....I wouldn't hear you anyway over my fire-belching exhaust!

Cheers!

Yeah, but on the contrary, I wouldnt hear you at all since its as quiet as a mouse insede my Audi S8 I drive now since I sold the 930, and as far as bumps over rough roads....well I havent felt a bump in that car since I bought it, I think I'll Google the definition of bump since Ive forgotten what theyre like BUT, I wasnt laughing that dark lonely night in the middle of the east coasts version of Compton when I broke my rear suspension and was alone, white, at 1 am standing in the middle of an intersection staring at an idling 930 turbo with the ass end on the ground with a pack of drug dealers and hookers across the street....Thats when I thought to myself .....jeez maybe this suspension wasnt the best idea LOL!!!! but it still did hadle great once I jumped back in and got the f**k out of Dodge (yeah, I drove it back home like that, broke suspension and all, with the tires rubbing the underside of the rear flares...life took on a whole new meaning that moment in the ghetto)

What a car!

[randywebb]

"I would think for track use you would want fairly stiff spring rates at the sacrifice of a comfy ride over washboard surfaces."

- Yes. Also, the change in rate is a non-linearity and can throw off the driver when racing...

[mmastro]

Touche!

Note to self: never drive in Newark, NJ.

[Jeff Alton]

Originally posted by Brant
So are you guys adjusting your ride heights once a week?

perhaps changing your spring rates every weekend?

that extra reinforcement weight makes it hard to hit 1837#

brant

Wow, nice.........

Cheers

[mmastro]

Originally posted by Brant
So are you guys adjusting your ride heights once a week?

perhaps changing your spring rates every weekend?

that extra reinforcement weight makes it hard to hit 1837#

brant

Is the snow getting to you, Brant? So much anger!

4 gallons of gas?! I can only go ~20 miles on 4 gallons, I'm jealous! Post some pics of your car?

[rusnak]

I have the Bilstein RSR front struts in my 3.2.

I think I can add some additional comments that were not yet covered.

Pro (Bilstein RSR or SRP/ Fox setup):
- front spindle is VERY stiff, due to extra reinforcement. You can feel the steering is made more precise as a result.
- rebuildable, and revalving is possible on all Bilsteins.
Pro (Coil springs)
- lighter than torsion bars
- more selection in spring rates
- torsion bars put a lot of stress on the upper surface at the rear of the front A-arm. You either have to swich to plastic bushings eventually or face a very costly replacement for the factory A arm about every 5-10 years or so. Coils will let you keep your old A arms, since the stress is carried on the upper mount, as described.

Con
- torsion bars are self-damping. This means that after you hit a bump, they do not continue to oscillate up and down. Coils will definately wallow up and down after hitting a bump.
- the needle bearing seats that you need to install at the bottom of the coils between the spring perch and the coils need constant cleaning and lubrication.

Corrections:
- The original post asked if coils allow easier height adjustment. The answer is that both coils and torsions allow easy height adjustment, with the exception being the rear of the torsion setup, where height adjustment is a pain in the fanny.

- I'm not entirely sure that the original RSRs had reinforced mounting points for the upper strut area. Later RSRs definitely had this area reinforced and tied to the roll cage, as Jack mentions.

- Ride height is a separate issue. You can tear the ***** out of any 911 by hitting a big road hazzard or pothole, if it is lowered too far.

I'd recommend contacting Smart Racing Products for advice on installing their coil over setup. Theirs looks to be very well made, and thought out very well.

I also forgot to mention that you can put any raised spindle setup in the car (Bilstein RSR, or SRP/Fox) and keep your original torsion bars, just don't install the coil springs.

[garibaldi]

mmastro, I hope you know Im only teasing with you . Newark is a great drive, like a human autocross

And those were the days.....the 8 mpg days. Took a while to figure out why the old 930s got such crummy gas mileage, for a 20 gallon fuel tank, 10 gallons went to the motor, and the ohter ten got blown out of the exhaust and lit inot a 5 foot set of flames, so in actuality those old turbos really got 16 mpg, since most of the fuel was used to scare the **** out of the traffic behind you, not actually propel the car forward

[mmastro]

Originally posted by garibaldi
mmastro, I hope you know Im only teasing with you . Newark is a great drive, like a human autocross

And those were the days.....the 8 mpg days. Took a while to figure out why the old 930s got such crummy gas mileage, for a 20 gallon fuel tank, 10 gallons went to the motor, and the ohter ten got blown out of the exhaust and lit inot a 5 foot set of flames, so in actuality those old turbos really got 16 mpg, since most of the fuel was used to scare the **** out of the traffic behind you, not actually propel the car forward

Totally know that you're joshin'! Newark sounds alot like drivin' from downtown LA to South Bay through the "interesting" part of town (the places where I do most of my work-crime scene investigation)

I'm sure I'll get tired of the ride....when I'm 65....

You were always willing to share your wealth of 930 knowledge, and I appreciated it.

Cheers,

[Brant]

Originally posted by mmastro
Is the snow getting to you, Brant? So much anger!

4 gallons of gas?! I can only go ~20 miles on 4 gallons, I'm jealous! Post some pics of your car?

I think the snow is getting to me.
plus I lost the motor on my street 914 on monday and worry that I will miss out on a lot of summer fun from it.

sometimes there is benefit to "keeping it simple"
the gains from a coil over conversion are real.
but they are only justified on full out race cars and even then they are not that rewarding in cost$=performance returns.

[mmastro]

Brant, you take weight savings to a new level!
Hope your 914 motor didn't suffer catastrophic failure...if it did there are a few 2.0L's on the 914 classifieds right now.

Very nice ride!

[garibaldi]

Someone went to home depot and got themselves a holesaw. I thought swiss cheese was light yellow....not orange

[rusnak]

Colin Chapman is smiling down on you from some cloud somewhere.

[Brant]

Originally posted by rusnak
Colin Chapman is smiling down on you from some cloud somewhere.

I take that as a huge compliment.
my father gave me the middle name of Colin at birth in respect to Mr. Chapman.

[safe]

Originally posted by garibaldi
Yeah, but on the contrary, I wouldnt hear you at all since its as quiet as a mouse insede my Audi S8 I drive now since I sold the 930, and as far as bumps over rough roads....well I havent felt a bump in that car since I bought it, I think I'll Google the definition of bump since Ive forgotten what theyre like

Audi S8 a fantastic car! Must be one of the best cars ever.
I drove one a few weeks ago. Comfortable and fast as hell, 450 HP, 0-60 in 5 seconds!
Big ceramic brakes, which did not help much getting a 5100 lbs beast down from the speed limiter to off ramp speeds on wet roads on winter tires

Well, that was off topic.

The consensus must be that coil overs are overkill on a street car. If you like to spend money on the car the are better ways.

[rusnak]

Garibaldi,

Sorry for asking, but are you the member of PCA who was the 930 editor for the Panorama magazine? Or do I have my names mixed up?

Thanks!

[garibaldi]

Hi, well first off, my S8 is an 2001, not the brand new one, havent made it that big yet....and even if I did, I doubt Id drop that sort of coin on a car like that, and yes, I used to be the 930 tech guy for PCA and wrote stuff in Pano, and had the flat black 930, but those days are long gone, now I breed alpakas and have the largest PEZ dispenser collection in the continental US and trade low grade fetish films on craigslist......KIDDING!

[rusnak]

hey Mr. Garibaldi,

I thought that might be you! The article about your 930 made quite an impression on me, especially the part where they said you sort of found the wheels in the garbage or something like that. I really liked reading your tech articles. You must run into a lot of your readers on this BB.

[Larry_Ratcliff]

I love the ride quality of my 74 with coil over conversion / 935 suspension:



I have dozens more suspension pics if you want them and I read some posts before about coil over 935 being bling but it rides a lot better than my 67 with 23 mm /28 mm torsion bars b/c it has 2 stage springs.

[dd74]

Subscribing.

[Brant]

did you install brass, or needle bearings when you went to the rear coil overs and 935 front?

because I found the same improvement in ride quality from my needle bearings install.

And thus theorize that the improvement in motion over poly-type suspension bushings can be attributed to ride quality (instead of the spring)

What bushings are in that car
Nice car by the way!
brant