Do These Prices Strike You as High?

[Dan in Pasadena]

I finally found the long lost receipt for work that was done to my car a few weeks before I bought it. The workwas done by the prior owner (a relative). Total for this receipt is $3383.81! The car is a '76 911S...so obviously, this amount was a high proportion of the car's overall worth in April '05.

Scanning the receipt I see there was a LOT more work done than I had realized but these are only some of the prices:

Ignition distributor (rebuilt) $348.95
The labor for this installation alone was $127.50

Fuel Distributor $625
Another $212.50 to install

All 6 fuel Injectors were replaced at a cost of $381
Can't these typically be sent out for sonic cleaning and balancing for somewhere around $20 each?

A 10K service which is described as "Drain engine and transmission oil. Adjust valve clearances. Replace spark plugs and ignition points. Set ignition timing and dwell. Check cap, rotor and ignition wires. Adjust air/fuel mixture. Replace air, oil and fuel filters. Adjust or replace belts. Check brakes running lights and tire pressures." Labor only for these things is $425.

Factory igintion wires alone were priced at $295.00

Now, am I just out of touch? Does this sound "right" to you guys? To me it sounds like tip-top retail, and in the case of the REPLACED injectors and the stainless braided factory iginition wires, is seems like foolish overspending on things that can be readily done for much less money. This is an independent shop in Pasadena, CA.

By the way, there is much, much more that was done, Fuel Accumulator, "Air Injection Pump Bushing" replaced, "Air Cleaner Bracket"

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Now, am I just out of touch? Does this sound "right" to you guys? To me it sounds like tip-top retail, and in the case of the REPLACED injectors and the stainless braided factory iginition wires, is seems like foolish overspending on things that can be readily done for much less money. This is an independent shop in Pasadena, CA.

It doesn't sound out of whack to me for modern, big-city prices at an independent shop, which are mostly at $90/hour and up these days. Maybe it could have been done cheaper, but a lot of shops refuse to use anything but new OEM parts due to warranty/rework issues that end up costing them more in the end. Better to stick the customer with a high initial cost.

TT

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally posted by ttweed
...Maybe it could have been done cheaper, but a lot of shops refuse to use anything but new OEM parts due to warranty/rework issues that end up costing them more in the end. TT

Yeah, I think you're right. This guy uses only OEM parts.

But honestly? If I had to rely on shops to do all the work on my car, I'd sell it. I simply could not afford to drive...well, almost any new car with prices that high.

[Gogar]

If you check prices for those parts with our host, you might find that they're not too far off in either direction. Of course, this place doesn't always have rock-bottom prices, but it's always pretty in line. Oh yeah, and all the free info.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Yeah, I think you're right. This guy uses only OEM parts.

But honestly? If I had to rely on shops to do all the work on my car, I'd sell it. I simply could not afford to drive...well, almost any new car with prices that high.

Dan, this is part of what is often referred to as "the Porsche tax"...

[Early_S_Man]

Dan,

Overall, within norms for checkbook repairs.

The only questionable price I see is $350 for a rebuilt distributor ... and the $128 installation. Not a blatant rip-off, but certainly questionable.

Somebody with more recent experience can correct me if wrong, but I thought PMO was selling new RS 2.7 distributors for $350.

[azasadny]

Dan,
Sounds about "right" to me, but I sure am glad my mechanic (Tab Tanner) treats me alot better than that! Fuel distributor rebuild is expensive and that's one of the reasons I switched to Webers.

[Dan in Pasadena]

I suppose you guys are right. But it is kinda shocking to me. Imagine if I had the money to own a truly new era Porsche?....which I do not!

My local mechanic; whom I use as infrequently as possible, is still only charging (me!) $60 because we're friends. But even at that price it doesn't seem "cheap".

[Evans, Marv]

Dan,
You have to remember 99.99% of shops use every trick in the book to make more money. In addition to the hourly rate, they will start with charging you 100% retail on parts that they get a shop discount on. Then they will charge you a 15% to 35% shop markup on top of that. For example, I had a shop try to charge me $70 apiece for rotors about 12 years ago. When I told them I would supply the rotors, since I could get them for $45 to $55 apiece everywhere, they agreed to charge me $55 each for them. I know they weren't happy about it.
I agree people have to eat & pay rent, etc. and I don't begrudge them that, but when they charge people the max exorbitant price they can because their customers are ignorant of the going price, I don't like that at all.

[azasadny]

Posts like this remind me how fortunate I am to have an honest, knowledgeable mechanic who also happens to be a fellow Pelican (Tab Tanner). A dishonest shop can rip you off 100 ways and you (I) would never realize it until it's too late.

I always feel like they are laughing as I drive away form the shops I used to go to. With Tab, I trust his knowledge and opinion and he's always treated me well. A good wife, good dog and a good mechanic and you're set!

[ChrisBennet]

Sure it's expensive but I doubt the garage made much profit from his visits.

One of the things you pay for when you go to a mechanic is being able to pick the car up the next day. Garages, even Porsche specific ones, don't stock every part. Instead, they get it the same day or overnight from a parts distributor. You know, those little pickups from "Acme Import Autoparts" you see driving around.

They don't want to diagnose your car, pull the injectors and then wait a week for them to get cleaned. Meanwhile you car is taking up a lift or they have to push it off someplace and bring it back when they're ready. I've had electronic injectors come back from being cleaned and flow balanced and had one stuck closed. Spent a lot of time diagnosing that and ended up just getting new injectors.

-Chris

[unclebilly]

$128 to replace the dist is a blatent rip off. Especially when they billed seperately for new plug wires and cap.

Replacing the dist is a 20 minute affair including setting the timing. I did mine in the parking lot behind a industrial hose shop when I had to fix the oil lines leading to my cam shafts and tensioners.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by unclebilly
$128 to replace the dist is a blatent rip off. Especially when they billed seperately for new plug wires and cap.

Replacing the dist is a 20 minute affair including setting the timing. I did mine in the parking lot behind a industrial hose shop when I had to fix the oil lines leading to my cam shafts and tensioners.

You're right, there seems to be some overlap between the 425 general labor and the 127 dist install. But, I think there was more to it than just dropping it in and timing it. A lot times an invoice will show check this and check that as part of the regular maintenance. 425 for the usual labor for a full service tune up is not bad. Still, it borders on double billing. I'm sure there's an explanation or another shop.

Furthermore, if the wires were truly OEM from Porsche, the shop got a 10% discount, last I knew. If they were from one of the 2-3 major wholesale distributors where shops and the likes of places like Pelican Parts get a lot of aftermarket items, then they made some money, IMO. I don't care for that tactic if they did that, but Dan didn't say they did. So, they likely paid a lot for the parts.

[SandyI]

$60/hour for quality independent Porsche service isn't cheap?!
I'm sure you'll find a better deal at Pep Boys...

[holtjv]

Originally posted by Evans, Marv
Dan,
You have to remember 99.99% of shops use every trick in the book to make more money. In addition to the hourly rate, they will start with charging you 100% retail on parts that they get a shop discount on. Then they will charge you a 15% to 35% shop markup on top of that. For example, I had a shop try to charge me $70 apiece for rotors about 12 years ago. When I told them I would supply the rotors, since I could get them for $45 to $55 apiece everywhere, they agreed to charge me $55 each for them. I know they weren't happy about it.
I agree people have to eat & pay rent, etc. and I don't begrudge them that, but when they charge people the max exorbitant price they can because their customers are ignorant of the going price, I don't like that at all.

Shops rely on the markup on parts to make a living. I suppose they could charge $150/hour for labor and cost on the parts, but you'd end up paying the same in the end.

kind of like buying a car from a dealer: they'll cut you a deal on the trade-in, but not on the new car. Or they'll discount the new car but not the trade-in. Or they'll discount the new car and not give you the great financing rate. You get the picture.

If your wrench is a good, honest guy and treats you well, he deserves to earn a living.

Jack

[Dan in Pasadena]

Milt, My reading of the receipt has a LOT of overlap on labor charges. Like I said, I only highlighted a few items. Labor to replce that air cleaner brack and labor to replace on of the air cleaner housing straps and labor to replace the air filter, etc. This shops (supposedly) only uses factory parts. Then in my opinion, they charge tip top retail AND they're always looking for things to do to grow the final price from the estimate.

Plus in the case of this particular shop, I don't like the personality of the owner. Frankly, he's a self important pr!ck. I will change my own oil, do my own brake jobs and valve adjustments and most everything I can figure out, for as long as I can to avoid shops.

There are good shops I know...no disparaging a guy like John Walker for example. But my admittedly biased opinion is that there are more of the bad ones than the good ones.

[oceanvue]

No way this guy got hosed.

[tab tanner]

When you factor in the labor rate that shop's charge think about this. All you DIYer's do not consider the tooling, insurance,taxes,advertising,phone service, Internet service,electric,water,gas,bookkeeping,and all the other fee's that it takes to run a shop. All I seem to hear is I can get it cheaper down the street, or it took you 5 min and your going to charge me for that. I don't want customers like that, who would? If you can do it yourself GREAT I'm happy for you but if you can't we are the guy's you bring your car to.I'll bet you don't go out to dinner and b*tch about the price of a hamburger @ $7.99 when you can buy ground beef for $0.99 a lb down the street do you. The prices it the repair order seem fair!!We all like to get a good deal, the word Porsche and cheap don't go together very well. If you put the best quality parts on a car and offer the best service why can't you charge a fair price, this is the age old question??I pass a deal onto the customer as much as I can, but I will not put cheap crappy parts on just to save a $$ or two. If you can not afford to pay the prices of a shop then learn like I did and read, ask question, don't be a dick and people will help you out I promise. I have never ran someone off for asking questions. But I still am running a business to make a living.Wayne the host of this board has done alot to help out the DIYer's out there but I'm shure he has to make a living to. If you look at it from the other side I think you will see it a little different

[greg bradbury]

I have never got a bill for mechanical work that I thought "gee that was fair and reasonable", it always hurts to cough up. I'm lucky and have been working on my own cars for years. I've saved a lot of money along the way. I've also learn some nasty lessons too when I've ****ed up or misdiagonsed a fault. It all evens out though. I don't pay for shop rent, workers insurance, payroll etc etc. It amazes me that people can actually make a living on cars. If they stuff up the owners are back quick as a flash yelling blue murder. A good shop has to factor in the ocassional come back into the cost otherwise he will be out of business. Then you have to find another shop and hope they are OK.

In the end you just have to grin and bear it or get your own hands dirty. In this case you were lucky that your relative had to pay.

Regards,
Greg

[hytem]

My local dealership will install rebuilt parts I buy independently for a good price. But they will charge a full hours' labor for less than one hours' work, at $100 per hour. I like the mechanic there, so I don't complain. They have to make a profit, and are paying a lot of salaries.