I would like to address the drag-racing issue.
 

The story is as follows: I had my 911 for about a week and was at a stoplight on a 4-lane road where I live. About two blocks from my home. This fly yellow 5.0 with blacked-out windows, lowered, and rumbling like a 360 v8 with cat-back exhuast pulls along side. I wasn't going to do anything, but he kept revving up his engine at me! Could't resist! Now keep in mind, this was BEFORE I learned how to shift a 915 properly. 3500r.p.m.s and "pop" goes the clutch! I'm off and running hard-he's lighting his tires up like last weeks cook-out! 1st to 2nd, no problem still running hard and with about 3 car lengths between us. As I blow through 60 mph, I'm done, hit the brakes - he has been smoked! To my home I go. Now this is where the story gets interesting so PAY ATTENTION! The next morning on the news, a report of two teens dying in a crash while drag racing. The report claims witnesses said these two teens were racing a YELLOW LATE MODEL MUSTANG WITH DARK TINTED WINDOWS! Who fled from the seen. The location was about 7-10 miles from my home! I gasped! Could it be the same person who provoked me into a race? That question remains un-answered. The point is I will NEVER race on a public road again! It was stupid and infantile behavior on my part. Racing of any kind belongs on the track! That could have been me who died that day! God Bless the souls of the two teens who used the same judgement as me.

Yours is a sobering post. For me, not racing on the street is mandatory. I would lose my Porsche because I'd lose my wife's support. License-wise, I'm in very good shape and enjoy good rates. I can't afford (literally) to enjoy bad rates.

jw

There is nothing wrong with spirited driving , especially in cars like ours, that are designed for high speed operation and challenging roads. However we must never lose sight of the fact that any car and especially performance vehicles are lethal weapons and should be treated as such . Several posts that have been on this site over the last few days seem to condone and encourage this macho bravado - ie how fast , out dragging japanese rice burners etc.

We are fortunate as owners of Porsches to be blessed with a well -oiled ( of course-they are Porsches) national organization that provides forums for racing, driver education, concourse , and rally events all over the country. The clubs also provide a forum for the exchange of ideas and assistance much like this board. The Potomac PCA board drummed off people who were bragadocious about their racing and speeding exploits in our neighborhoods. Most of us tend to be mature responsible members of our communities with families and all the attendent responsibilities.
Aggressive driving on crowded public roads can only serve to enforce stereotypes of the owners of certain cars. I am happy that you have realized the inherent dangers of racing with strangers. To draw a parallell, in another competitive venue , cycling, you will rarely see a cyclist let someone they dont know sit on their wheel ----you just don't know what they may do, what their training has been or how they may hurt you.

Notwithstanding the thoughts above , I do believe these cars should be driven and driven hard. To wit, I did a 25 miler last night ,late, through local deserted twisties. . What a pleasure to be fortunate enough to own one of these machines!

Hope I don't hurt myself getting down from this soapbox!


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Bob
1982 911SC Targa

[This message has been edited by ras911 (edited 01-11-2001).]

I'm no prima donna, but I've spoken out on this issue before. I am very judicious about my spirited driving, for several excellent reasons. I've loved motoring for for more than thirty years now, and this car has taught me much about driving. It takes two hands and two feet to drive my car. No less.

Goes without saying: Our cars are different because you can get to a whole new level of danger, very quickly. By the way, 60 mph is 80 feet per second.

A pet peeve: Drivers who can follow at less than one car length (or two) at 80 fps, simply do not understand the physics involved in motoring. I am certain that I have avoided tickets on many occasions because the following distances I choose are long.

People do have a false sense of security when motoring. They do. They feel much safer than they are.

I am always in complete control of my vehicle. I noticed very early that this car's limits are not to be trifled with on public roads. I go to those limits ONLY on a track.

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'83 SC

Well for what its worth I am a new P owner I just bought my first 911. Well as the previous owner of corvettes "tupperware" as other people in the P club call them, I am pretty used to people wanting to race me, what really kinda surprised me is when I bought my 911 it has a whaletail on it I have had many more people want to race me than in any of my corvettes. Well I did go up against a mustang once and beat it but I feel I no longer have to prove anything to anyone I love my 911 and love it even more through the twisty roads. I bought my car cause I have always wanted one finally a long time dream became reality.

Okay, time for me to get kicked off the board. But hey, if someone dies racing--and I'm not talking about an innocent bystander dying as a result of others racing--then it's, and you know I'm going to say it Neo-Darwinism at work.
I always race around the hilly areas, and I know the limit of my car, but if some bozo in a pickup truck tries to keep up or pass, and his car nearly loses complete control (happened), that isn't my fault. He' stupid. He's driving a truck for christ's sake.
Listen, you can't save everyone.

What's more, if you crash in straight line, I mean, how the hell do you get into a one car accident drag racing? Jesus...stupid kids.
Oh well. I surely hope we don't make the Yellow Mustang the scape goat in all of this. The guy who knows how to handle his car, win or lose, must be punished for the ineptitude of his vanquished, albeit permanently, opponents. It's a bunch of malarchy! Still, I can appreciate the shock of your situation.
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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

[This message has been edited by Kurt B (edited 01-11-2001).]

Too often we're tempted to show the power of our cars or our driving ability when pressed by another. It requires great restraint to hold back. Spirited driving is in my opinion, a way to drive agressively and with restraint thereby not endangering yourself or others. Knowing when to concede....knowing when enough is enough.

Many times the ones pressing us to race are kids. Kids that have yet to learn the driving skills that many of us learned (dangerously) when we were younger. It is foolish to face off against these kids. As a teenager, my buddies and I were out in his 1976 V-6 Capri when another 3 folks in a Mustang challenged us. We thought we were hot stuff racing side by side through country roads at midnight. As we approached a tight left, my buddy knew we were traveling too fast and he immediately backed off. Apparently the other driver didn't know the road and all we could do was watch in disbelief as he tried to take the turn at speed. His understeer pushed him off the right shoulder and when the rear tires came back to traction...he shot across the road at tremendous speed...down an embankment and head on into a massive oak tree. We were helpless and in shock as we watched the doors fly open and the bodies crumple as the horn blared. We went immediately to the closest house and phoned the police and ambulance. We were too young, stupid and afraid to hang around. The paper reported the next day that the guy had been drinking and had his girlfriend in the front seat with him and her sister in the back. The back seat passenger was paralyzed for life, the driver had multiple injuries and the passenger was in intensive care for months.

That was a sobering lesson for me and my buddies and we never raced that way again. I have always been a "Spirited" driver and will always try for the hole shot from every stoplight..whether in my Camry or my 911. I pick my races wisely, I don't have anything to prove to anyone....just myself that I know when to say when.

And I now have 2 teenagers to think about...and yes, I have taught them how to handle the Porsche and other cars with respect....Autocross should be mandatory discilpine for getting your DL.

FWIW

Chris Baker

[This message has been edited by Shakenbake (edited 01-11-2001).]

I've road raced more times then I can remember in my Porsche, and other cars.

However I've never caused, or gotten involved in an accident. Well, that's assuming that if the person you're racing crashes his car, it's not your fault. Or is it?

I've raced (or been chased by) a mercury cougar with two teens in it, at about 110mph, and after I just got done with one the turns where I drifted for longer than 3 or 4 seconds, I just KNEW he wasn't going to make it... Looking in my rearview mirror proved this, I saw their headlights point in the sky, then completely go dark (the car wasn't visible).

I did turn back and call the cops on my cell phone, and helped them until the ambulance got there.

I've done some stupid stuff, and I can't imagine how bad I'd feel if I hit a girl walking her dog or something, when I was racing somebody.

It's interesting how now I look back and say "boy, I wouldn't do that again"...

But I don't think there's anything wrong with going 100mph, or faster on the interstate, specially if visibily is fine, there's no traffic, etc, and in a Porsche?

Let's try to keep my ego out of this for a change:

It's dangerous to drive fast, PERIOD. I don't care if you're in a Porsche! You have way too much momentum, when you're going fast. We all know this, be responsible, and reasonable. If everybody drove the speed limit, obeyed EVERY rule, not many accidents would happen...

It may not be AS safe, but a reasonable person, driving his Porsche sensibly should cause no more harm than the avarage driver to the bigger picture.

I haven't had my license for about 4 months, and I have 8 to go, I read stories like this to keep myself a little more contained when I get it back! And, yes believe it or not racing on a track does help not push things as much on public roads.

I've actually challanged a Mustang driver to an auto-x before, and his answer of "how'bout a drag race", made me feel even better about myself, my car, and OUR ability. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/biggrin.gif
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

Drag racing on any public road is stupid! I can not understand why people don't just go down to the local dragstrip (don't tell me that most communities don't have one, even here in Salt Lake City we have one.). My brother is a cop and even he is guilty of some stop light draging in his 450hp Chevy. When I ask him about why he would do something stupid like that he said "you wouldn't understand because your car goes fast everywhere, not just in a line." I think he was saying that Porsche are an all around sports car where as most American V8s are only good for 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times. I know not to drag race (even on a track) against even some of the quicker rice rockets, let alone the big American V8s. But I also know that many of those owners would not challange us on a race track. I hate to see idiots in Porsche driving in a dangerous fashion,because I know my insurance will only go up if that guy is caught or kills someone. Please drive careful, after all, Porsche owners should not have anything to prove off of the race track. On the track is a different story(beat those Vipers, M3s, and Vettes).

Don't know if anyone else agrees, but I see evidence of increased maturity, Ahmet.

Kurt, we love you, man. If you want to get kicked off this Board, you're gonna hafta try a lot harder than that.

Chris, what can I say? Nothing. Except that accident may have saved your life.

Our autocross requires at least age 18. Dumb. Someone once asked me when I thought auto racing began. I think auto racing began when the second vehicle was built. Until then, it had been just Time Trials. Even if the cars were built to be the same, the question would have arisen whether they were actually identical. And once there were two actual manufacturers....factory sponsorship began. Such is our nature.

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'83 SC



[This message has been edited by Superman (edited 01-11-2001).]

Tonight a big BMW flashed his lights coming up behind me and it was either brake for the hay truck in front of me or get up to 130 mph plus and play tag with him for the next 6-7 miles to avoid the slow lane vehicles acting as chicanes. Finally the right lane was clear and I let him go. It really isn't worth the danger. Does anybody have the details on the Car and Driver testing death at high speed?

Dan

How about a sunshade or license plate from that says, "Wanna race? Meet at Willow Springs, email .........!" or "I race.....at Michigan International Speedway." It's definitely one-upmanship and anyone who is keen enough to seriously take you on may be worth the time to talk. Bench racing is definitely safe racing!

Dan

Sounds like a thirst quenching solution Dan.

ALL RIGHT, THAT'S IT, I'M GONNA PUKE. What is this politically / reponsibility correct crap? Sounds like you guys would rather read a Playboy than be with a woman. This is the US. If you can afford a car that goes 170 then you can go 170. If you can afford the ticket then go for it. Everyone knows the consequences if they screw up. As a parent and a citizen I know the FACTS of life, not the way the rose colored glasses think it should be. Life is too damned short to spend it on the porch - run with the big dogs or buy an SUV to hide in.

So Ahmet - you were leading a chase at 110 on public roads but don't feel you caused an accident? Damn I'm jealous. It'd be really nice if I could pull some stunts like that without feeling a sense of responsibility afterwards. I sincerely hope I misinterpreted your post.

Hadn't been to visit the tow yard buddies in a while, so I dropped by today. A nice, new black-on-black Mustang GT was there. ..in pieces. Some kid borrowed it from his buddy, took it out for a triple digit run on the beltline, and got veeerrrry loose. Bounced off some barriers and ground to a halt after ripping the front wheel off along with the hub, and the rear wheel broke off with the entire #!$*ing axle. The kid felt kinda bad...2 days letter he blew his brains out with a 9mm. Oh, the Mustang was sitting next to the Camaro SS with the engine sitting in the blood-soaked passenger seat.

Kids want driver licenses? They should have to ride graveyard shifts with tow drivers and patrol cops for a week first.

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Dave
1972 911T (E motor) RSR replica project
http://members.nbci.com/dtwinters/garage/

Rarly, when you say "everyone knows the consequences", I disagree. These were 2 17 year old kids who died in this accident. Do you think getting killed even crossed their mind that night? or any night? Not meaning to dis you, but I came upon the scene of the above mentioned accident as the smoke cleared that night and what I saw, I will never forget. I agree with the others, there is a time and a place for that kind of behavior. If you want to haul ass when you alone, so be it, more power to you, I do it all the time, but just because you're old enough to understand your actions, doesn't mean the person in the car next to you does.

YEAH BABY! That's why I like this board! I can turn off the recording of "pomp and circumstance" this post required as background music.

Btw, although I do a lot of "spirited" driving, I don't race on public roads. I figure that those speeds get into felony territory here in Florida if someone gets killed. I love being with women and I don't want to be anyone's b#@#h in Stark prison.

[This message has been edited by JAE (edited 01-11-2001).]

After I got through the first few posts.... I scanned down looking for a "rarlyL8" response I knew he would not let me down.

Just be smart.........

[This message has been edited by H20911 (edited 01-11-2001).]

Thank you, Rarly, for bringing back reality to this board. I will tell you all about my 130+ run I had on a public highway (straight, and clear) last Sunday. Sure was a nice day for a drive. 25 degrees, plenty of horsepower; I wasn't racing anyone but I sure was going fast.

Sorry, folks. I have seen dead people and I regard that as a fact of existence. I am prepared to face the consequences, and I prepare for that with things like wearing my seatbelt. I think we're all old enough here (with the exception of Ahmet, maybe) to make our own decisions.

These are exotic, high horsepower/weight ratio racing cars detuned for the street. Of course we drive them fast. I call upon every single one of you to tell me you obey all traffic and safety laws and never push the limits in these cars.

(Silence)

I thought so.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The Porsche Owners Gallery

Hey rattlsnak, did they ever catch the yellow mustang driver? I couldn't see who was driving that car-the windows were black. Since you know what accident I'm talking about you can imagine the shock I was in the next day! Also, the road I was on was hwy. 92 by the home depot in roswell. It was about 12-1 in the afternoon. The accident happened later that night not too far away.

Is this yellow Mustang driver some sort of villain? So the unfortunate casualties in this story had nothing to do with their own destiny? They could have backed off at any time. You chose your fights, you takes your chances.

Hey waterboy! Glad to hear your still with us! How's that short tranny bellhousing thing comming along? Now THAT car is gonna be a wheels up dragracing maniac!

I agree with old_skul.

No self respecting Porsche owner obeys all the road rules and does makes the safest choice every time.

Life is about educated decisions and calculated risks. I bought my 911 to go fast around turns, anybody can go fast in a straight line. I choose to break the speed limit everytime I drive the 911. I accept this risk and the consequences if caught.

Do I road race? Yes and no. Yes if it a worthy opponent that I feel will drive responsibly, usually Supra or BMW people who are young professionals and do not want to wreck thier car. No, if it is a young punk who will endanger thier life and mine for nothing or if it is a car who is no fun competition. Do I road race offen? Maybe three times a year and usually just a few miles and I always back off around other cars. It is fun to do on occasion and I do not feel I have endangered anybody other than myself in these events.

The problem is most people either cannot drive well or the car is not designed to handle such speed. Honda Civic's should not go 100MPH, SUVs should not go over 80MPH, and most front wheel drive cars should not attempt corners like a Porsche.

I think new drivers should have to pass some sort of autocross test to teach them how to handle a car at its limits, instead of killing themselves on the public highways. I bet there would be a decline in SUV sales if people tried them on a closed driving course in contrast to sport wagons from BMW and Audi.

Georgia is talking about putting a curfew(sp) on teens driving after 11 or 12 at night because they can hurt themselves and others. This sounds good to the PTA, but it is only treating a symptom and not curing the problem of crappy driver education. Oh, now that they are 18 they can automatically drive better after midnight, BS.



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Chapter

My views on this topic echoes that of Rarly8. Like almost everything else in life, there is a time and place for everything - street racing especially. If the roads are clear, the cops aren't there, no one is intoxicated and the opponent is willing and worthy, why the hell not? Drag racing is especially safe, I would argue that it can be safer than a spirited drive on your own down a favourite road as a) It only lasts for 15-20secs b) you are going straight down a road with a (hopefully) clear line of sight.

And what is with this attitude that Porsches are the only safe cars to speed in. Guys, this isn't 1981, it's 2001. Honda has won the F1 manufacturer's Championship a fair few times since the Civic was first introduced. Take their Integra Type R (1.8, 197bhp) - it holds group N class production car lap records all over European tracks and it would be safe to say that Turbo and Carerra RS apart, it's probably faster over a lap than any standard production car built before 1980. Time and technology has moved on...

[This message has been edited by 930fan (edited 01-11-2001).]

dtw:

"Well, that's assuming that if the person you're racing crashes his car, it's not your fault. Or is it?"

And the fact that I did turn back, call the cops, and help them out of the car, as well as me looking back on this help me not feel too guilty. I'm sure them not being hurt has something to do with it though. (just minor cuts). However I don't think I'd do the same thing again.

Don't get me wrong, I did feel pretty bad, which is the reason of looking back and reflecting. I can understand if you don't think I'll stop taking chanses like this, but I don't think I'll ever forget that feeling! Specially having my fears proven with seing headlights of a car point in the sky, that was for my eyes, not yours...

If this didn't happen, 100s of posts like this one wouldn't do to much, one has to experiance it for himself. Next time you hear somebody say "let him do whatever he wants" about a teen, there's a reason for that. Most of us will listen to you, and nod, but it comes in one ear, and out the other!
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

Actually, for most rational drivers, teenage or not, it shouldn't take witnessing such an accident!

Attending the funeral of a friend SHOULD DO IT! Or, reading the obituary of an acquaintance you talked to the day before SHOULD DO IT!Or maybe even just reading a front-page news story in a newspaper ... about a couple-of-years-younger student from your former school, SHOULD DO IT!

Or, how about viewing the corpse of a classmate at a funeral parlor ... WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH TO DO IT???

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Hey guys.. Got some sobering info for you!! In most states the statutes regarding drag racing read the same, here is the simplified version... Speed contest plus loss of life equals vehicular homicide... The drivers of both cars share the blame... Happened to a friend of mine 2yrs ago.. The jerk he was racing happened to be drunk, didn't know the road, tried to take a corner at 80mph and killed a woman and her 10yr old son... My friend abandoned the race 30 seconds before the accident but the damage had already been done... He got the same sentence as the guy who killed them... NO DRINKING!! NO COLLISION!! GUILTY ANYWAY!!
Be safe!!
Pete
77'Carrera3.0

[This message has been edited by pacmyster (edited 01-12-2001).]

Laws seldom have anything to do with what is "right" or "just". The penalty for getting caught dragracing on public streets should be put in place to protect innocent bystanders (as above). NONE of my freinds or myself has ever been in an accident during a street race. It's not luck, its common sense. The above example is perfect for demonstrating how the law takes the responsibility away from the actual person who did the damage and laid it on everyone involved. Do you have free will or not? This idiot was drunk AND stupid. May he rot in jail before hell. And what does this teach the other guy? You'd be an idiot to stop and help. Get outta there fast and hit a pay phone for 911 (so that's where the name came from). Nice message ain't it.


[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 01-12-2001).]

Early_S_Man:

Maybe those "should" do it, but how many people personally know others who've gotten hurt in a traffic accident resulting from a "race". I still go out with a few friends on friday/saturday nights to an unfinished (and closed to public) road and race. I haven't done this, but I'm there most the time to watch it. Personally I don't know one person who has gotten hurt in a traffic accident resulting from racing somebody. (I haven't, and never will drive drunk, a close friend of mine died when he was drunk though... Coincidence that I won't drive drunk? No!)

When you're a teen you think nothing will ever happen to you, and you're invincible.

Don't get me wrong, I do respect your posts, but don't tell me you know how teens think better than I do. I'm at school with them 5 days a week, most my friends are teens, and so am I!

JFI: I've written a skit to discouradge teens from driving fast/drunk at school, and had it shown on school tv, along with footage from junk yards/accident scenes.

Would I do this if a friend of mine didn't die driving drunk? If I hadn't ever witnessed an accident? If I still had a license and raced ANYBODY who came up to me? In short, probably not. That's my point, it's hard to see just how dangerous it is to speed in unsuitable places, UNLESS you see consequences first hand, or via somebody you personally knew. Most people don't know anybody who's gotten hurt racing somebody else...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

R22, I know the Mustang driver was "in hiding " for quite a while, but I do remember hearing they found him. It happened on Chastain Road near 575. Lost control on a turn in the road, hit a 6 foot high/ 6 feet deep brick entrance sign to a church. Very long skid marks. The Z28 speedo was stuck at over 100, and this was after the skidding.
Marc

Superman ... I think you made a mistake, and spoke a little too soon ...

There are very few high schools or colleges accross this country where traffic accidents do not take one or more lives each year, and speeding or alcohol is almost always involved, but apparently not every student listens to the message! That does not mean the message is not repeated again, and again, every year ... in the obituaries and in the HEADLINES ...

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Early_S_Man:

You're repeating my exact point, "apparently not every student listens to the message!"

BTW: At my school, Needham Broughton High School, (there's more than 2000 students) there has been 5 deaths in the last 4 years that I've been attending there. None of them are traffic related...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

There are more accidents caused by people talking on the cell phones while driving than drunk driving accidents. Deaths, I have heard no statistics for related to cell phone usage.

We can draw from this that it is safer to drink and drive than use a handheld cell phone and drive. Statistically speaking it is not a joke. I heard a local law official say on TV that on a typical late night 10% of the people on the road are legally drunk.

From my personal experiences, I do know more people that have died from cell phone related accidents than drunk driving. Also my wife has been rear-ended 2 times by people blabbing on cell phones. I do not know anyone who has been envolved in a road racing accident.

Is there public outrage to these cell phones of destruction? No. Please go hands free if you coose to talk and drive.



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Chapter

Adrian,

The Insurance Institute just made known their statistics on cell-phone related accidents, and the rate is virtually identical to drunk driving ... for now! Unfortunately, the drunk driving rate has been declining, while the cell-phone rate is rising dramatically! Until, the law-makers do something about it ... just like stricter enforcement standards and harher penalties for drunk-driving. I can just 'see' the PSA's on the way!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Well, another topic that seems to be near and dear to most P-car owners' hearts...

If you want to push yourself and your car, go out to the middle of nowehere or find a track. Otherwise, people who think that all they have to worry about when they drive fast is themself are a danger to all of us. What about the guy who floats the stop sign that you can't see b/c your cruising along at 100 mph? Or the guy in the late '70's station wagon who tries to cross 2 lanes of traffic in front of you?

Having driven some great cars, and owning a 911 and 2000 'Stang GT, there's nothing I like better than driving fast. But I would never be stupid enough to allow myself to be goaded into drag racing some cheesy-ass mother f***er just for the sake of proving the cool quotient of me or my car. And as an attorney I can assure you that the same guy who says "I take responsibility for the risks associated with my driving" will be the first guy whose estate sues the mfr. or other driver after the accident. Like the Viper driver who missed a shift at 100 mph+ and drove off an exit ramp, and then sued Chrysler for not putting ABS on his car.

Phew - I feel 20 pounds lighter now!

Lee

Using CELL PHONES while driving is a pet peeve of mine. I have a theory:
-
Most of the members of this BBS are "drivers" - we DRIVE our cars. We keep the "traffic picture" in our mind - we are aware of the cars we passed, we are aware of cars coming up on us - we are aware of cars we are overtaking - we know the road and we anticipate problems , e.g., where traffic is going to come from, etc. etc.
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I know when, on those rare occassions I must use the cell phone while driving, I lose the picture! I'm not aware of losing it until after I hang up and suddenly become aware of what traffic is doing around me - whether I've been holding someone up in the left lane, or I am approaching a group of cars going considerly slower than I am. I am always surprised that I could lose the picture so completely just by talking on the phone.
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Those folks who claim that they can talk and drive at the same time are probably lousy drivers to begin with. They don't have the traffic picture - they don't anticipate - - they just react. Talking on the cell phone just makes them all the worse.
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I've said this before - scary moments for me are when I am sandwiched in between two SUVs, with both drivers glued to their cell phones! It's happened to me more than once. And of course, in the WashDC area, we have the *******s who have their newspapers proped up on the steering wheel while driving the GW parkway or the beltway. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/mad.gif
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Chuck

A town here in MA recently outlawed cell phones while driving. The move took lots of criticism, even by the police. They said it would be impossible to enforce. To me, I agree with the ban, but I also think there are grey areas as well. When I am sitting in traffic for 35 minutes on my way home, crawling at 10 mph, it certainly doesn't take much concentration. Driving the P car on the track or on the highway at 70 mph is a different story.
I have always been of the opinion that it really doesn't matter what laws you make, because people will always break them. The more you make, the harder it is to enforce them, and The police need to choose which ones they will focus on. 20 years ago, drunk driving wasn't a big issue, so few were caught. Now, as a response to media/public outcry, Police departments are all over it. Apparently, Cell phone usage will be next, then what? driving cars that are capable of exceeding the speed limit? Maybe it will turn into a gun control tye issue- Guns that are "assault" rifles and cars that are "racecars" will be targeted. Who knows. The only constant is this: Most people are stupid, and their even laws will not protect them (or us) from their stupidity.
HMPHHHH!

Yes. If you are actually engaging a Mercury f*cking Cougar to race and it crashes, you share in the responsibility. North Carolina General Statutes agree with me...not just my opinion.

Same logic: "I gave my friend some crack-rock and he OD'ed. But I'm a great guy cuz I called the ambulance and fished all the vomit out of his windpipe until they got there."

On a semi-related note: anytime my friend tells people he does road-course racing, they get pissed and say "That's illegal! You're going to jail!" Of course we're in the heart of Nasty-car country so no-one really knows what road course is.

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Dave
1972 911T (E motor) RSR replica project
http://members.nbci.com/dtwinters/garage/

Speaking of stupid, baseless, frivolous lawsuits ... how about the one in the early '80s in San Diego where a drunk lady driving a 930 (not hers) at 70 mph through a 20 mph zone, managed to kill herself, and the family sued Porsche, AG for selling a car with Defective Brakes!!!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Well, Early S Man, we're straying off the topic in lawers land. How about the thief who stoll a 928 in L.A. years ago? Cops chase him and he hits a barrier, gets out of the car and runs, but can't escape the cops because he has a broken arm. Then his atty. sues Porsche for big bucks because "air bags failed to deploy." Mark Anderson of 928 International kept that shell with the popped air bags for years until the case was settled or dropped.

dtw:

Are you feeling angry for some reason? You sure seem to be pretty willing to bash me for it!

I don't know another way to word this, "I was CHASED by a mercury (as you say) f*cking cougar", I did NOT race, or was NOT racing him.

I don't understand what's wrong with you guys, this guy came within inches of my car, and he was on the wrong side of the road while doing this. I ran off the road to avoid him!!! As I turned my head back to look at this guy, he was speeding towards my car again, so I ran!

I just don't want anybody to hit my car!

It turned out, a friend of mine owed him money, I didn't know him personally, nor did I know about the situation until he wrecked his car, and I got out of my car to help him, help the same guy who tried to run ME off the road AND hit my car...

If you think I'm guilty, I don't know what else to tell you...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...