I would like to address the drag-racing issue.

The story is as follows: I had my 911 for about a week and was at a stoplight on a 4-lane road where I live. About two blocks from my home. This fly yellow 5.0 with blacked-out windows, lowered, and rumbling like a 360 v8 with cat-back exhuast pulls along side. I wasn't going to do anything, but he kept revving up his engine at me! Could't resist! Now keep in mind, this was BEFORE I learned how to shift a 915 properly. 3500r.p.m.s and "pop" goes the clutch! I'm off and running hard-he's lighting his tires up like last weeks cook-out! 1st to 2nd, no problem still running hard and with about 3 car lengths between us. As I blow through 60 mph, I'm done, hit the brakes - he has been smoked! To my home I go. Now this is where the story gets interesting so PAY ATTENTION! The next morning on the news, a report of two teens dying in a crash while drag racing. The report claims witnesses said these two teens were racing a YELLOW LATE MODEL MUSTANG WITH DARK TINTED WINDOWS! Who fled from the seen. The location was about 7-10 miles from my home! I gasped! Could it be the same person who provoked me into a race? That question remains un-answered. The point is I will NEVER race on a public road again! It was stupid and infantile behavior on my part. Racing of any kind belongs on the track! That could have been me who died that day! God Bless the souls of the two teens who used the same judgement as me.

Yours is a sobering post. For me, not racing on the street is mandatory. I would lose my Porsche because I'd lose my wife's support. License-wise, I'm in very good shape and enjoy good rates. I can't afford (literally) to enjoy bad rates.

jw

There is nothing wrong with spirited driving , especially in cars like ours, that are designed for high speed operation and challenging roads. However we must never lose sight of the fact that any car and especially performance vehicles are lethal weapons and should be treated as such . Several posts that have been on this site over the last few days seem to condone and encourage this macho bravado - ie how fast , out dragging japanese rice burners etc.

We are fortunate as owners of Porsches to be blessed with a well -oiled ( of course-they are Porsches) national organization that provides forums for racing, driver education, concourse , and rally events all over the country. The clubs also provide a forum for the exchange of ideas and assistance much like this board. The Potomac PCA board drummed off people who were bragadocious about their racing and speeding exploits in our neighborhoods. Most of us tend to be mature responsible members of our communities with families and all the attendent responsibilities.
Aggressive driving on crowded public roads can only serve to enforce stereotypes of the owners of certain cars. I am happy that you have realized the inherent dangers of racing with strangers. To draw a parallell, in another competitive venue , cycling, you will rarely see a cyclist let someone they dont know sit on their wheel ----you just don't know what they may do, what their training has been or how they may hurt you.

Notwithstanding the thoughts above , I do believe these cars should be driven and driven hard. To wit, I did a 25 miler last night ,late, through local deserted twisties. . What a pleasure to be fortunate enough to own one of these machines!

Hope I don't hurt myself getting down from this soapbox!


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Bob
1982 911SC Targa

[This message has been edited by ras911 (edited 01-11-2001).]

I'm no prima donna, but I've spoken out on this issue before. I am very judicious about my spirited driving, for several excellent reasons. I've loved motoring for for more than thirty years now, and this car has taught me much about driving. It takes two hands and two feet to drive my car. No less.

Goes without saying: Our cars are different because you can get to a whole new level of danger, very quickly. By the way, 60 mph is 80 feet per second.

A pet peeve: Drivers who can follow at less than one car length (or two) at 80 fps, simply do not understand the physics involved in motoring. I am certain that I have avoided tickets on many occasions because the following distances I choose are long.

People do have a false sense of security when motoring. They do. They feel much safer than they are.

I am always in complete control of my vehicle. I noticed very early that this car's limits are not to be trifled with on public roads. I go to those limits ONLY on a track.

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'83 SC

Well for what its worth I am a new P owner I just bought my first 911. Well as the previous owner of corvettes "tupperware" as other people in the P club call them, I am pretty used to people wanting to race me, what really kinda surprised me is when I bought my 911 it has a whaletail on it I have had many more people want to race me than in any of my corvettes. Well I did go up against a mustang once and beat it but I feel I no longer have to prove anything to anyone I love my 911 and love it even more through the twisty roads. I bought my car cause I have always wanted one finally a long time dream became reality.

Okay, time for me to get kicked off the board. But hey, if someone dies racing--and I'm not talking about an innocent bystander dying as a result of others racing--then it's, and you know I'm going to say it Neo-Darwinism at work.
I always race around the hilly areas, and I know the limit of my car, but if some bozo in a pickup truck tries to keep up or pass, and his car nearly loses complete control (happened), that isn't my fault. He' stupid. He's driving a truck for christ's sake.
Listen, you can't save everyone.

What's more, if you crash in straight line, I mean, how the hell do you get into a one car accident drag racing? Jesus...stupid kids.
Oh well. I surely hope we don't make the Yellow Mustang the scape goat in all of this. The guy who knows how to handle his car, win or lose, must be punished for the ineptitude of his vanquished, albeit permanently, opponents. It's a bunch of malarchy! Still, I can appreciate the shock of your situation.
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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

[This message has been edited by Kurt B (edited 01-11-2001).]

Too often we're tempted to show the power of our cars or our driving ability when pressed by another. It requires great restraint to hold back. Spirited driving is in my opinion, a way to drive agressively and with restraint thereby not endangering yourself or others. Knowing when to concede....knowing when enough is enough.

Many times the ones pressing us to race are kids. Kids that have yet to learn the driving skills that many of us learned (dangerously) when we were younger. It is foolish to face off against these kids. As a teenager, my buddies and I were out in his 1976 V-6 Capri when another 3 folks in a Mustang challenged us. We thought we were hot stuff racing side by side through country roads at midnight. As we approached a tight left, my buddy knew we were traveling too fast and he immediately backed off. Apparently the other driver didn't know the road and all we could do was watch in disbelief as he tried to take the turn at speed. His understeer pushed him off the right shoulder and when the rear tires came back to traction...he shot across the road at tremendous speed...down an embankment and head on into a massive oak tree. We were helpless and in shock as we watched the doors fly open and the bodies crumple as the horn blared. We went immediately to the closest house and phoned the police and ambulance. We were too young, stupid and afraid to hang around. The paper reported the next day that the guy had been drinking and had his girlfriend in the front seat with him and her sister in the back. The back seat passenger was paralyzed for life, the driver had multiple injuries and the passenger was in intensive care for months.

That was a sobering lesson for me and my buddies and we never raced that way again. I have always been a "Spirited" driver and will always try for the hole shot from every stoplight..whether in my Camry or my 911. I pick my races wisely, I don't have anything to prove to anyone....just myself that I know when to say when.

And I now have 2 teenagers to think about...and yes, I have taught them how to handle the Porsche and other cars with respect....Autocross should be mandatory discilpine for getting your DL.

FWIW

Chris Baker

[This message has been edited by Shakenbake (edited 01-11-2001).]

I've road raced more times then I can remember in my Porsche, and other cars.

However I've never caused, or gotten involved in an accident. Well, that's assuming that if the person you're racing crashes his car, it's not your fault. Or is it?

I've raced (or been chased by) a mercury cougar with two teens in it, at about 110mph, and after I just got done with one the turns where I drifted for longer than 3 or 4 seconds, I just KNEW he wasn't going to make it... Looking in my rearview mirror proved this, I saw their headlights point in the sky, then completely go dark (the car wasn't visible).

I did turn back and call the cops on my cell phone, and helped them until the ambulance got there.

I've done some stupid stuff, and I can't imagine how bad I'd feel if I hit a girl walking her dog or something, when I was racing somebody.

It's interesting how now I look back and say "boy, I wouldn't do that again"...

But I don't think there's anything wrong with going 100mph, or faster on the interstate, specially if visibily is fine, there's no traffic, etc, and in a Porsche?

Let's try to keep my ego out of this for a change:

It's dangerous to drive fast, PERIOD. I don't care if you're in a Porsche! You have way too much momentum, when you're going fast. We all know this, be responsible, and reasonable. If everybody drove the speed limit, obeyed EVERY rule, not many accidents would happen...

It may not be AS safe, but a reasonable person, driving his Porsche sensibly should cause no more harm than the avarage driver to the bigger picture.

I haven't had my license for about 4 months, and I have 8 to go, I read stories like this to keep myself a little more contained when I get it back! And, yes believe it or not racing on a track does help not push things as much on public roads.

I've actually challanged a Mustang driver to an auto-x before, and his answer of "how'bout a drag race", made me feel even better about myself, my car, and OUR ability.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

Drag racing on any public road is stupid! I can not understand why people don't just go down to the local dragstrip (don't tell me that most communities don't have one, even here in Salt Lake City we have one.). My brother is a cop and even he is guilty of some stop light draging in his 450hp Chevy. When I ask him about why he would do something stupid like that he said "you wouldn't understand because your car goes fast everywhere, not just in a line." I think he was saying that Porsche are an all around sports car where as most American V8s are only good for 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times. I know not to drag race (even on a track) against even some of the quicker rice rockets, let alone the big American V8s. But I also know that many of those owners would not challange us on a race track. I hate to see idiots in Porsche driving in a dangerous fashion,because I know my insurance will only go up if that guy is caught or kills someone. Please drive careful, after all, Porsche owners should not have anything to prove off of the race track. On the track is a different story(beat those Vipers, M3s, and Vettes).

Don't know if anyone else agrees, but I see evidence of increased maturity, Ahmet.

Kurt, we love you, man. If you want to get kicked off this Board, you're gonna hafta try a lot harder than that.

Chris, what can I say? Nothing. Except that accident may have saved your life.

Our autocross requires at least age 18. Dumb. Someone once asked me when I thought auto racing began. I think auto racing began when the second vehicle was built. Until then, it had been just Time Trials. Even if the cars were built to be the same, the question would have arisen whether they were actually identical. And once there were two actual manufacturers....factory sponsorship began. Such is our nature.

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'83 SC



[This message has been edited by Superman (edited 01-11-2001).]

Tonight a big BMW flashed his lights coming up behind me and it was either brake for the hay truck in front of me or get up to 130 mph plus and play tag with him for the next 6-7 miles to avoid the slow lane vehicles acting as chicanes. Finally the right lane was clear and I let him go. It really isn't worth the danger. Does anybody have the details on the Car and Driver testing death at high speed?

Dan

How about a sunshade or license plate from that says, "Wanna race? Meet at Willow Springs, email .........!" or "I race.....at Michigan International Speedway." It's definitely one-upmanship and anyone who is keen enough to seriously take you on may be worth the time to talk. Bench racing is definitely safe racing!

Dan

Sounds like a thirst quenching solution Dan.

ALL RIGHT, THAT'S IT, I'M GONNA PUKE. What is this politically / reponsibility correct crap? Sounds like you guys would rather read a Playboy than be with a woman. This is the US. If you can afford a car that goes 170 then you can go 170. If you can afford the ticket then go for it. Everyone knows the consequences if they screw up. As a parent and a citizen I know the FACTS of life, not the way the rose colored glasses think it should be. Life is too damned short to spend it on the porch - run with the big dogs or buy an SUV to hide in.

So Ahmet - you were leading a chase at 110 on public roads but don't feel you caused an accident? Damn I'm jealous. It'd be really nice if I could pull some stunts like that without feeling a sense of responsibility afterwards. I sincerely hope I misinterpreted your post.

Hadn't been to visit the tow yard buddies in a while, so I dropped by today. A nice, new black-on-black Mustang GT was there. ..in pieces. Some kid borrowed it from his buddy, took it out for a triple digit run on the beltline, and got veeerrrry loose. Bounced off some barriers and ground to a halt after ripping the front wheel off along with the hub, and the rear wheel broke off with the entire #!$*ing axle. The kid felt kinda bad...2 days letter he blew his brains out with a 9mm. Oh, the Mustang was sitting next to the Camaro SS with the engine sitting in the blood-soaked passenger seat.

Kids want driver licenses? They should have to ride graveyard shifts with tow drivers and patrol cops for a week first.

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Dave
1972 911T (E motor) RSR replica project
http://members.nbci.com/dtwinters/garage/

Rarly, when you say "everyone knows the consequences", I disagree. These were 2 17 year old kids who died in this accident. Do you think getting killed even crossed their mind that night? or any night? Not meaning to dis you, but I came upon the scene of the above mentioned accident as the smoke cleared that night and what I saw, I will never forget. I agree with the others, there is a time and a place for that kind of behavior. If you want to haul ass when you alone, so be it, more power to you, I do it all the time, but just because you're old enough to understand your actions, doesn't mean the person in the car next to you does.

YEAH BABY! That's why I like this board! I can turn off the recording of "pomp and circumstance" this post required as background music.

Btw, although I do a lot of "spirited" driving, I don't race on public roads. I figure that those speeds get into felony territory here in Florida if someone gets killed. I love being with women and I don't want to be anyone's b#@#h in Stark prison.

[This message has been edited by JAE (edited 01-11-2001).]

After I got through the first few posts.... I scanned down looking for a "rarlyL8" response I knew he would not let me down.

Just be smart.........

[This message has been edited by H20911 (edited 01-11-2001).]

Thank you, Rarly, for bringing back reality to this board. I will tell you all about my 130+ run I had on a public highway (straight, and clear) last Sunday. Sure was a nice day for a drive. 25 degrees, plenty of horsepower; I wasn't racing anyone but I sure was going fast.

Sorry, folks. I have seen dead people and I regard that as a fact of existence. I am prepared to face the consequences, and I prepare for that with things like wearing my seatbelt. I think we're all old enough here (with the exception of Ahmet, maybe) to make our own decisions.

These are exotic, high horsepower/weight ratio racing cars detuned for the street. Of course we drive them fast. I call upon every single one of you to tell me you obey all traffic and safety laws and never push the limits in these cars.

(Silence)

I thought so.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The Porsche Owners Gallery

Hey rattlsnak, did they ever catch the yellow mustang driver? I couldn't see who was driving that car-the windows were black. Since you know what accident I'm talking about you can imagine the shock I was in the next day! Also, the road I was on was hwy. 92 by the home depot in roswell. It was about 12-1 in the afternoon. The accident happened later that night not too far away.