Not racing yet, should I be concerend?

[boxster03]

I think if you factor in a competitive car, spare parts, tow vehicle, trailer, fees, travel and expenses you can campaign a vintage car for $250k a yr.

[David]

Originally posted by porsche930dude
i dont understand why it costs 30$ to race around cones in a college parking lot. Usually theres about 30 cars at the autox thats 900$ where does that money go!? They dont even give out trophies or drinks or anything.

Insurance

[HarryD]

Originally posted by porsche930dude
i dont understand why it costs 30$ to race around cones in a college parking lot. Usually theres about 30 cars at the autox thats 900$ where does that money go!? They dont even give out trophies or drinks or anything.

Where does the money go?

The blacktop you are running on is not typically free. If you are a "real" organization, you have to carry liability insurance to rent the space. Anything left over you use to buy equipment (cones, timi g gear etc) and trophies etc. If you still got some left, back to the club treasury to support other, non-profitable events or to a local charity.

[porsche911girl]

In addition to the fee, isn't there a checklist or something you have to fill out in order for your car to be cleared to compete? Something about a pre-race inspection, bleeding brakes, etc? For someone (like me) who's still learning, and would have to have someone else do all the work, that's gotta be a pretty penny...

[aftermath]

I ice raced this year, $700 car and $450 race fees for the season, a few parts and gas. Way too much fun. Ive been building up a porsche for 2 years now and Im no where near ready to track it yet, or afford to track it. Learn in something cheaper, slower. You will still have fun, and learn your way around doing so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DU1SDrNfRA

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally posted by porsche911girl
In addition to the fee, isn't there a checklist or something you have to fill out in order for your car to be cleared to compete? Something about a pre-race inspection, bleeding brakes, etc? For someone (like me) who's still learning, and would have to have someone else do all the work, that's gotta be a pretty penny...

You need to do some more research on AutoX

Bleeding brakes? You don't have to. Basically if everything in the car is secured and it doesn't spew anything, you're good to go. Also, you have to show proof of ownership and I believe at least liability insurance.

I haven't autoXed the Porsche as it was not setup to my liking previously, but will get into it this spring. With the MINI I've had a blast autoXing (BMWCCA puts on great events down here at Qualcomm stadium, other marques are welcome too, but BMW gets priority), I am also in college and my parents are basically supporting me, but I make a few bucks on the side and that usually goes into partying or my cars.

[ted]

Originally posted by porsche911girl
In addition to the fee, isn't there a checklist or something you have to fill out in order for your car to be cleared to compete? Something about a pre-race inspection, bleeding brakes, etc? For someone (like me) who's still learning, and would have to have someone else do all the work, that's gotta be a pretty penny...

Here's a tech sheet.
A local shop might fill in the tech sheet for free, they check everything tell you what needs to be fixed.
Hopefully it's minor and you can do it your self.

[RSBob]

I second shifter-karts. Very economical, very fun, very fast. As a added plus, if you stuff it in a wall, at least you haven't totaled you Porsche.

[porsche930dude]

insurance i forgot about that. A coworker said the other day the average american pays 38% of their income in taxes that just sucks. Once at the autox a corvette took out the timing light and like 5 cones in a spin we did the rest of the event with stop watches that was alot of fun

With the tech inspection you just go to the track and the inspector looks over your car and 5 minutes later your good to go for the whole season. Its really not hard to pass if your car passes the state inspection it will pass a tech inspection easily. When i usto race my 240sx i had to clamp down the battery better and remove the floor mats. I dont think he even checked my bald snow tires

[naparsei]

Don't look for excuses not to, look for ways to get there...

[Dantilla]

Our region charges $25 at the track, or $20 if you register early.
We usually have close to 100 cars show up at our old airport site.

No tech needed ahead of time. A few guys go down the row of cars and give each a quick going-over. If they find a problem, they will usually help fix it on the spot.

It's a great place to learn. Several drivers with national trophies are eager to instruct.

Costs: There is track rental, insurance, timing and scoring equipment, loaner helmets, fire extinguishers, two-way radios to call in penalties, year end trophies, and it helps if you have a few of those orange traffic cones.

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by porsche930dude
i dont understand why it costs 30$ to race around cones in a college parking lot. Usually theres about 30 cars at the autox thats 900$ where does that money go!? They dont even give out trophies or drinks or anything.

Here in Orange County there isn't an unpaved chunk of land for a hundred miles...
So of course we can't use any of it.
Finally last year we finally found a venue that is inside of Orange County for an Orange Coast Region Auto-X!

It still costs over $2,500 to rent for a day. Then we have to pay for cones, equipment, gas for the truck, registration supplies, $blah$, $blah$, $blah$ ...

It all adds up. I'm certain that it can be done for a lot less money someplace where there is less asphalt and more open space!

-------------------------

Oh, and back the the original question about how to go racing for cheap. Find a race series that doesn't use expensive cars and buy a used car out of the middle of the pack. (You will learn more driving and dicing in the middle of a pack!) If you purchase a used race car someone else will have lost the money it takes to build it. I highly recommend taking delivery of it immediately after a race, at the track if possible. That way they can't strip any of the little do-dads off of it before delivery. You will know you have something that can run a race.

Someone mentioned ice racing. Ice racing is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. You will learn how to setup and maintain a car, control a car under 'interesting' conditions, and how to setup and complete a proper pass. The speeds are a bit slower then asphalt (except for superstuds...) and the walls are softer.

[kwm]

Shifter carts is a good idea and actually me and my brother have plans in May to check out a shifter cart track where they give you a few lessons then put you in one of there carts.

[Ken911]

i'm 45 took my carrera out at sebring in feb first time ever on a track. then morroso a couple weeks later now that i'm hooked the old lady took my carrera and drove it to seattle. If she comes back i'll be taking it to de's if not i'll have to learn in my turbo which isnt quite on the road yet. But I'm going to start no matter what.

[Dueller]

Originally posted by kwm
I am 33, been out of college since 98, going back part time next month, full time job in my career for just over 5 years, and have had my car just over 1 year. I really want to get into track days and racing. I started by auto-crossing and 2 track days on my motorcycle (which is far less expensive than I expect it to be in my car) but can't get past that point expense-wise and time-wise where I can start into it as much as I would like.
I was wondering what the average age of most people who race our cars is? If my local PCA is any indication it must be something like 49-50 years of age but I can not wait that long.
I honestly think that a reasonable time assessment for myself is at least 5+ years away as much as I hate to admit that. When I consider the cost (and my knowledge in this area is limited) and time needed it just doesn't seem doable. Any helpful advice?

That's an interesting, if not a bit confusing, question. Assuming you're talking about amateur/club racing, you have plenty of time to jump into the foray. If you're talking about a career change and becoming a pro racer, I'm afraid its a bit too late.

First of all, people who are absolutely driven to race, do. No matter what the cost (selling everything, eating ramen noodles, sleeping in the shop, no vacations, no nights on the town, selling a kidney, etc. etc.). Its like a drug they don't make. It totally consumes their life.

OTOH, if you are like most amateurs, it is somewhat a romantic notion that is kept in perspective. You are not willing to sacrifice everything solely for the sake of going racing.

After fooling around with motoX and short track/flat tracking and autoXing in my teens and 20's, I got into amateur racing about 20 years ago in my early 30's. I was drawn to road racing but tried a variety of venues: dirt track ovals, asphalt ovals, time trials/solo 1, etc. I made the jump into W2W road racing after crewing/working a number of SCCA events for a few years.

I built my first cars myself (240Z Datsuns in SCCA ITS). To afford it, I scrounged parts, tires, camped at the track, etc and did all my own wrenching/fabrication by establishing a network of friends and business associates. It wasn't "I can't afford it" but rather "HOW do I afford it?" Initially my cars were mid-pack and not competitive due to my limited budget and limited experience. But I had a ball learning.

That brings me to a good point: Unless you have serious discretionary income/assets, a MAJOR part of amateur racing involves a LOT of your own work and resourcefulness. If you don't enjoy tinkering on a race car it can get out of control expense wise in a hurry if you have to pay someone to prep and maintain a race car.

As my experience level and financial situation improved, I spent more and achieved a modicum of regional success. That brought me into contact with people who wanted me to co-drive their cars. I was asked to help set up rides and gained even more experience. I was offered much faster cars to rent at a much discounted rates. Interestingly I began to be asked to assist in running crews on national level amateur teams. Which I suprisingly enjoyed almost as much as the driving. Moreso, when I was dealing with OPM.

Now I'm sorta coming full circle. After nearly 20 years, I began to tire of they efforts required to participate in amateur series. Don't get me wrong: I truly enjoyed racing as a hobby. But the prospect of the preparation of mounting what is essentially a small military campaign to get away for a weekend of fun began to seem like work rather than play. And I have more plaques and trophies than I know what to do with. Then I found what will likely be my niche in my future quest for automotive *****s and giggles: I attended a DE in my trusty ol' 911. Perhaps its just a life stage...

Now, I pack the car, drive to an event with the radio playing and the A/C blowing, unpack, drive the snot out of the car and when the weekend is over, I (hopefully) pack it up and drive home. No more loading a trailer and packing up tons of spares only to face a 500 mile trek home in a diesel guzzling Suburban only to have to unpack it before getting ready for work in the another 4 hours.

But I digress. No, you have plenty of years left to chase your racing dreams even if you're 5 years away. Hopefully time and money constraints will lift to make it sooner rather than later. In the interim, volunteer to work at events, crew for a firend who's already succumbed to the madness, help somebody who's preparing a car for next season. You'll learn a lot and be much more comfortable when you do make the plunge. And it won't cost hardly anything at all. Plus, it gives you a behind the scenes perspective on what it takes to race that you don't get as just a spectator observing the glory of the victory lap.

You asked what it costs and I don't think anybody has really answered that. Answer is it depends...how fast you wanna spend? When I started out in the late 80's, I built a car for $5K. Each weekend cost about $1,100: 200 entry fee, 300 tires, 300 fuel/fluids for tow vehicle/race car, 100 brake pads, 200 to feed my volunteer crew. That's if nothing broke and we didn't crash.
Two years ago, my budget per weekend had nearly tripled. But, I was in a more expensive car, was staying in motels, drinking better beer

And don't discount racing something cheap just to get experience...many guys running at the national level started out in cars essentially built out of junkyards. Chris Albin comes to mind...the boy was fast fast fast in a low budget 70's era Rabbit.

Anyways, that's my $.02.

Good luck.

[kwm]

Dueller, thanks for the info. I did motoX as well from maybe 17 to 19 years of age so I got started late at that as well. I am a late bloomer in all reguards and always have been.

[Dueller]

KWM...if it makes you feel any better, I started racing only after I went back to law school after having been working for 9 years at a job I hated. It was my reward for finishing in 2 years instead of three

You obviously have some experience wrenching...why not pick up a salvage title early miata and building a fun budget track car yourself?

[kwm]

Fortunately I like my job and am only going back to school to get better at it. Unfortunatley though my wife is also back in school and only mid way through a long PhD run so our school costs combined are getting up there. I live a stones throw from Lowes Motor Speedway and my neighbor used to race Outlaw cars there until one of the so-called pro drivers from the NASCAR shop he works at put down 3 hot laps in his car and totaled it and his dream at the same time (w/o offering to help pay for any of the damage). So since he can not totally afford to get back into it I have thought about seeing if he would be interested in teaming up on "something" but then again I am not a very good teammate and rather more of a impatient shot calling leader type so I may be setting myself up to fail on that one.

[Dueller]

Crews sometimes need "shot callers"...LOL.

I've raced at Lowe's (road course) and really liked it.

Don't poopoo this idea, but some of the most fun I've ever had was racing a Legends car. 2 buds and I rented 3 of them down at an asphalt track in south Georgia a few years back. They both raced late model dirt track cars and were blown away with how well they handled, power to weight ratio etc. They're durable and (relatively) cheap. Plus they can be RR'd regionally.

If there were a track near us, we all agreed that would be pretty cost effective racing.

If that's not your cup of tea, build a endurance IT or Spec 7 car to co-drive with your bud and run RA, Roebling, Lowe's, etc. on the cheap.

[lateapex911]

As a club racer, I might be a bit opinionated..

Do NOT race a Porsche, LOL. Well, you can, but be prepared that dollar for dollar, you can RACE more, if you choose something else.

A great way to get started in wheel to wheel road racing is SCCA and the Improved Touring category. Also, Spec Miata has lots to recommend. You could buy an IT -7 (an RX-7 first gen, as I see in your sig, you've owned one) and get on the track, with spares for 4500 easily, and be able to race at VIR to Road Atlanta easily from your location. The IT7 class in your area is VERY active..

You'll need a drivers suit, shoes, helmet and such, figure a thousand for that...or less if you don't need "Sparco" names all over it.

Now, you'll be wise to get an open trailer ($1500), and a tow vehicle (you've got that, right?), and then budget between $500 and $1000 per weekend for consumables, gas, lodging, food, entries and so on.

The joy of the classes I've mentioned is that the cars are cheap, and wrecks are not devastating affairs financially. There are, for example, lots of RX-7 chassis still out there, so even a frame bender is just $500 to replace. And resale value will be nearly what the purchase price is, and the engines in RX-7and Miatas particulary are very reliable and very cheap in the long run. (Not to mention Mazda sells parts to racers cheaper than dealer cost through the Mazdaspeed service)

On top of that, it seems that, on the east coast, IT and SM are very well subscribed, so real door to door racing will be the rule...you'll learn fast.

Now, a word of advise..if you really want to wheel to wheel race, don't get stuck doing drivers ed or autocrosses for too long...they can become consuming. And if you are doing drivers ed events in your porsche for example, resist the temptation to pour hundreds into your car in "impovements" as there is little reason...nobody's really racing anyone. Save the anal improvement stuff for class racing, and even then, choose carefully between performance mods and track time with your money. As an instructor, I like to hear a guy has spent a year, maybe two doing track days and autocrossing, but I've failed guys who were 5 year PCA drivers ed guys...they just were out of their element. In other words, it's more about YOU, then your resume'. And racing teaches you things that most drivers ed events don't: How to go fast off line, and how to really cling to speed.

Finally, I think it's wise to try to get on the track before marriage and family...if you are an extablished racer, you can always take a year off here and there as family requires, then get back into it with little trouble. Plus, it can be a fun outlet for fathers and sons!

If you want links and contacts feel free to email or pm me.