Let's build a 934!
 

http://www.pelicanparts.com/swapmeet...erry/Pic93.jpg

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...Jerry/pic7.JPG

I think it is a bad azz car :D

For a street rod / hot rod how would you build it?

Plan is to start with a 930 and duplicate a factory 934 as close as possible mechnically, internally and cosmetically. But make it more streetable and a better suspension.

Details, we need details?

934 Flame Thrower
 

:eek:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177645648.jpg

if anyone can pull this off......rdane can
would love to see one of these done
how about a horizontal fan too?

I have the wheels available!! It would be really nice to seem them go to this sort of project. How does a set of 15x10 and 15x15 3 piece BBS wheels sound?? They are just like the onse pictured. Centerlock and all.

Here are the picshttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177657510.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177657524.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177657697.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177657719.jpg

The 934's been in my top three since I was old enough to recognise one. Go for it Dane, your chassis strengthening know-how will work a treat here.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/175/4...ab617616_o.jpg

turbo fever caught you?

its a deadly disease im telling you..

Now were talkin. My favorite P car....go for it Dane!

I've always loved the look of the 934 too. But from everything I've read they were a handful to drive fast.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177674650.jpg

The 934 is also my favourite 911 ever. I toyed for a long time with the idea of going with its look...
In the end I thought that since I didn't have a turbo engine in the back it was like cheating.

The 934 is not that more complex than any other hot rod 911.

I would start with a 930 tub.

Swap to coilovers using the ERP 935 kit front and rear.

Get a set of centerlock hubs (call Zuffenhaus, they are doing mines).

Body work is actually pretty easy, with no cut and weld but just adding FG parts.

Interior is pretty much unch from a stock 930... the original 934s had A/C (maybe not.. maybe they just had electric windows as Paul pointed out)

Engine... and here Craig will be upset... I'd go for a 993TT powerplant. These things are monsters. Add a Motec and then the sky is the limit in terms of power... really.

For the gearbox I would replicat what Craig has... or you can swap the floorpan and get a 993 GT2 (or Guard GT2) transmission...

It's only money.

I don't know about them having A/C oiginally but they did have electric windows.

I thought I read it on Excellence Was Expected.... but I must have confused it with electric windows.

I remember a comment by one of the drivers saying they were very "comfortable" race cars... as they didn't need to strip them down to the bone because of the weight regulation in Group 4.

Whatever you do PLEASE don't paint it pink....


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177680859.jpg

The 934 is my all time favorite Porsche. Looking forward to your project and want to see how you get a flat fan in your car!

Great story in Excellence BTW, you build cars right.

Go for it rdane.... you'll love it!

If you want more streetability, you may want to deviate from the original build. I think the 934 had bigger turbo, custom CIS and big cams, so power doesn't come on till ~4500rpm.

And from memory, I recall reading that they use larger sway bar in front than rear because of tire size/diameter. On tires, if you want to have more sizes, then again might want to upgrade to 17" instead of the originals.

In any case, have fun & keep us posted!

rdane,
How 'bout a 934 ultra-light? I think the Carrera RS and RSR's are beautiful cars and wished I owned one, but I think Excellence has gone overboard with their RS passion by having two articles a month on these cars for the last 4 months.

It would be great if Excellence covered your project start to finish for this street monster. Use the 930 series short block and mod it with DIY EFI system, single Garrett turbo, Evo cams, etc. You would have a very streetable car with an evil side. ;)

I know you'll kill me for saying this but...

the 934 used water to air intercoolers that were placed behind the 2 extra openings in the front valance.
If you went with a 930 motor those openings would remain useless....

If you went with a 996 based twin turbo motor you could use them for the radiators. You'd need to be a little creative with the placement of the intercoolers... But you'd have a motor that would demolish the original 934 engine in mild state of tune...

A 993TT engine can be found for $20-22k. I am not sure abt the 996 TT.

+1, love it, or go with Craig's 500bhp CIS idea. We have a guy running a 930 with 508 bhp on CIS.

Full EFI setup and Camgrinder cams for the C3 arrived at my place today: hello baaaaaby :D

934 workplace:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177686763.jpg

Dane, definitely get a vision in your head of what you want out of this type of project.....

Original 934 exterior look only?
Interior to be mid-1970s?
Engine 934 style?

It all depends on personal taste and to a degree you want each department of modifications to go to -

Based on your current 3.6, I'd guess you'd want the exterior to be 934, the engine to be as much HP as reasonably possible, some custom bits.....

Then again, if I were you I'd sell your 3.6 engine and install a 3.4L CIS Turbo engine under the duck tail.....it can and has been done.

And as of 2007, there is no reason why you cannot have a Turbo on CIS which is reliable and AFRs that are safe.

514hp and 2300 lbs?
I've nailed the engine build, let me know when we start...

Is this a real project or is it just a race car fantasy camp? :confused:

One can spend time, money, get wrapped up in the passion, the thrill of doing something different while building for them the ultimate car.

Build it, enjoy it, think of what one could do "better".......and then move on to something else.

The thrill of the hunt, and perhaps a seeking of the next customization of the upcoming build.

I could see Dane building a high HP, low weight Turbo car......one with a ducktail and an intercooler underneath.

I'm taking bets;)

It would be sacrilegious to put a twin turbo into a 934 replica. 930 with EFI will do the trick (I know EFI is cheating) but it will provide the drivability you seek.
Below is my build sheet for my 930/934 project
Project Type 930/1987 model/ 37343 miles
Engine
Stock crank and oil pump, etc.
Case boat tailed
Pauter rods
3.4L 7.5:1 pistons
Cylinders and heads ported with custom head work, 964 style head gaskets
930 heads ported with stock valve sizes, but smaller 993 valve stem diameter on inlet valve. Valves back cut for flow improvements along with some more secret headwork
Twin plug with Bosch silver plugs W4CS
Imagine Auto valve springs and titanium retainers
GT2 Evo custom grind cams
Carrera 3.2 liter intake manifold Extruded and honed
Custom billet fuel rails
Edelbrock pressure regulator
Siemens injectors 72lb/hr
Full bay intercooler from Bell intercoolers (Don Enderlein’s design)
B&B Headers (retained)
Fabspeed Dual out exhaust
Imagine Auto’s HF2 Turbo
Tial BOV, Wastegate
MoTeC M600 with Data logging
M & W double ended coil
M & W CDI controller
Motec switch on the fly boost controller with hidden Valet
Kennedy Engineered Products Pressure Plate
Carbon Fiber shroud
Transmission

Custom G50/50 Patrick Motorsports with Guard Chromoly LSD, Motorsport steel synchros and sleeve assembly WEVO G50 shifter

Suspension

I have upgraded to an RSR coilover setup and Wevo Camber king setup with the strut brace tube.
Braking and Running Gear

The car presently has Big Reds all around and 17” Ruf classics (17x8.5 and 17x 10 with Michelin Pilot Sport Cups).
Safety

Full fire suppression is onboard and a custom built Chromoly roll bar. Bi-xenon H4s, Recaro Sport Toplines in suede and leather
Miscellaneous: McIntosh head unit and amplifier sound system with ADS speakers and JL sub, Griffiths and Performance Aire AC

Hey Jim :D

Does it really matter? I build fantasy projects every day on a much smaller scale for well heeled customers. Nothing wrong with having a dream yourself.

Pelican is the best place in the world for free advice on Porsche info. How better to start this project?

I think any of us who have done one big project (Craig, Matteo, Jack, Doug, Randy and the dozens of others here) will always have something in the back of their minds once the first is done.

The first project may well drag you through some serious labor pains and kill any desire to do a second. Or it just may add passion to the first thought process.

I think I can "build" an even better car now so why not put that experience (which wasn't cheap) to work and build or even just talk about a different project? No matter, I'll want the next one down on paper (build and budget) before I or anyone else turns a wrench. Call it "updated 934, project proposal".

Great feed back guys.

Couple of questions?

Thinking out of the box.

Down sides to starting with a G50 Carrera or a C2? Going to strip amost every thing anyway. I stared thinking from the feed back a C2 might be a better starting platform for rigidity, tranny, suspension and brakes. How hard are the offset issues to resolve or would you? And then back dating. ( chrimney I all ready start thinking a 964 RSR might not be a bad thing and a bit cheaper) What am I missing on a back dated 964?

Here is what I am thinking to better the 934, LWT weight, more hp and better suspension.

996 TT would be very cool for the raidiators and HP? More comments?

What shop (be cool if a Pro would jump in) do you think should/would take on this kind of project? I won't micro managage another car build. Last one drove me crazy on the details. Looking for a shop that happily covers all the details of a big project liek this upfront.

I think few of us realize just how much of an effort TRE put into BBII to have it 100% the day it left the shop.

Can you send me a PM on costs and what the tire sizes are?
15"s for show and 17"s or bigger for go.

Hey Dane -

Come over and drive my car. See what a CIS turbo motor can feel like.
Lag? What lag? And more throttle response than you could ever imagine.
Always good to build subjective as well as objective data points.

Awesome SCHNELE! Got any pictures ? :D

Craig care to share your build sheet?
And where is that famous flame thrower picture of your beast?

Based on your recent thinking, you ought to think seriously of a C2 Turbo.
http://www.c2turbo.com/
The brakes are already present, the suspension easy to modify
(coils), power steering and A/C too.
Light weight? They are PIGS....

Due to the C2T rear suspension (unless you RSR it), there are definite limitations on rear tire size (285?) for a C2T.

..OR you could build a RUF Yellowbird Replica.
That'll drive you crazy :p

Dane

if you seriously want to improve the suspension geometry you need to look at using a 993 tub for 2 reasons.

1) the tub icomes already more rigid than anything Porshe built before.
2) Rear multi link design

As per the engine.... I think it is a sacrilege to have a 934 withOUT a flat fan set up sooooo....

Yes the 996TT engine suggestion was made a little tongue in cheek.. just to stir things up but the 993TT engine is the logical power train solution.

I know Craig ans SCHNELE have fantastic 930 engines that are just perfect... But I bet they are close to triple the cost of a used 993TT engine.
Remember in stock form with restrictive headers the 993 motor put out 408HP.
These days a lot of people are good reprogramming the stock Motronic unit... but a Motec M600 is only $5k and in the big scheme of things...

I still think you need to find a use for the extra holes in the valance (originally I thought I could use them for small A/C condensers or for extra small oil coolers+fans)....

As per the shop... there are the usual suspects on the west coast and in Oregon... but I would feel bad if i didn't spend a word for Zuffenhaus, the guys that are building my car. I wish you could see the car in person... Ask James Shira....

Yes. If it's real, I would probably subscribe to the thread. Otherwise,...

Dane

Don't worry abt centerlock wheels and hubs... when the time comes I'll hook you up with the right guys :D

*3.4L P&Cs 7.5:1
Twin plug
IA Fuel Head (may not be required)
*Adjustable WUR - 3 way / RPM activated solenoid - by Brian Leask
*K27 Hyflow 'S' zero clearance turbo
Blownsix Intercooler
*SC heads
964 cams
Aase springs & Ti retainers
ARP bolts
MSD CD ignition w/Magnecor wires
B&B stainless headers
No air injection, cold start or plastic CIS manifold
3 oil coolers
*Zork (no muffler)

* If you want the high HP....

I want something differrent. So a factory car won't be it. LWT? I can make anything lighter. That technology I do possess!

Yellowbird? Funny how that name keeps coming up. Like when Pete was pedal down in 3rd doing well over 100 and says how slow my car felt on the first good section of road on the loop. Then he mentions it is a comparison to Yellowbird, the last car he had out on the loop. Meanwhile I'm thinking "Geezus just how fast is this guy going to drive my car??" And there are people who actually think I like to drive fast?

Next time Pete and I get together on "the loop" I want to hear just one thing from him in that first section..."holy sheeetttt!!!!!" All in a good way of course :D

So the plan is to better Yellowbird which would seem easy enough to do.
:rolleyes:

Then come over to Kirkland & see what a P/W ratio of 5:1 feels like.
Seriously. Take a test drive.

Compare the length of this run:
http://home.comcast.net/~craigcarolann/trackvideos/930_November_11_2006_dyno_009.mpg

To this (the old 3.6, 20 more HP than your 3.6):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzfPeeu7BBI

That is what more Hp feels like.

- 993 tub backdated to 934 look
- centerlock hubs + 962 17" wheels
- 993 GT2 transmission + Guard GT2 LSD
- JRZ/Moton adj shocks + ERP components
- 520HP mild tuned 993 engine (k24 turbos, remap, bigger cooler)

The problem would be the tail. The 934 tail does not have enough room for big intercoolers (remember they used the water-to-air intercoolers up front). You'd need to be inventive there...

But it would be bye bye Yellowbird any day and you could take it to the grocery store, smog it and drive it on 91 gas...

Holy sheeeeeet, Craig. I hope you mean 1:5!!!!!!!!!!

Either one has gotta be pretty ******* fast.

BTW the area in which Dane & I live - if the chassis is 1983 or earlier.....no smog.

PM sent!:)

Knowing zip about 911s my first project started in the fall of '02. Made EXCELLENCE this month and I still have a few things I want to tweak on that car. Those will take most of the summer to sort out I suspect. If you are waiting for me to drop some actual coin I wouldn't bother subscribing. Did that the first time, going to be a lot slower to reach for my wallet on this project.

Craig I'll take you up on that offer for a ride, next track day if that is OK?

Just reread the GT2/2.7 RS comparison. Less than 10 second on the track. No big deal when you are talking street cars. I've already ran my 3.6 against a '05 GT2 so I know where they are at. Everyone keeps up. But going from 7# per HP down to 5# per HP really is a big deal.


Matteo? or any one?

- 993 tub backdated to 934 look
- centerlock hubs + 962 17" wheels
- 993 GT2 transmission + Guard GT2 LSD
- JRZ/Moton adj shocks + ERP components
- 520HP mild tuned 993 engine (k24 turbos, remap, bigger cooler)

Makes perfect sense to me.
Any idea where we could get down to weight wise with an actual interior?

This kind of thing is the reason we come to work in the morning.
-That being said, it is virtually impossible to cover all of the details of a custom build before the work begins. More realistic is a good outline/action plan.

For instance, starting with a C2 over a 930 radically increases the fabrication work for the exterior. Starting with a 993, even moreso. A C2 sacrifices about an inch in rear hub-to-hub from a 930, so deep wheels shouldn't be an issue there.

However, centerlocks (although not inexpensive) are already in kit form for 930 suspension and brakes.

A 993 would be a great platform in terms of rear suspension, but adds rear quarterpanel grafts to the fabrication list. Both the C2 and the 993 need dashboard backdates.

Once a GOOD approach is decided upon, a decent build sheet/estimated job cost can be developed. Once the work starts, and the unexpected options arise, a certain amount of project creep is guaranteed.

All that being said, this kind of thing is still the reason we come to work in the morning.

give us a call - 704-821-2546 or shoot an email - zuffenhaus@mindspring.com !