Will the GT3 Mk 1 be the next 2.7RS / should I dive in ?

[livi]

The Rennsport series (2.7RS, 964RS, 993RS and the GT3 Mk1 and 2) has always been my favorites. I guess I am not unique that way.

Later this year I may have the means of acquiring a GT3. I prefer the Mk 1 for several reasons, but it was also made in a very limited number. I believe something like 1800-1900.

Do you generally think it is a solid buy and specifically - how about the theory that it might be closing in on 2.7RS status in a couple of decades. I am not after an investment. I want to drive and enjoy it, but I thought IŽd swing the hypothesis by you guys to see what you have in your crystal bowl for the GT3 in the future.

[jwetering]

That's always been my opinion livi. There's been much written about how collectable classics become collectable classics, and in my opinion the GT3 has all the right stuff

1)limited number
2) performance oriented
3) good looking
4) come from a golden era in motoring which I believe we are living in right now.

The problem though is that classic status is, as you've pointed out, still a few decades away. One of the other reason that cars make it to collectable classic status is that not many originals (already limited) survive because they got into the hands of enthusiasts who use them up (like you and I might do). If you buy one now, and use it, then in twenty years it will be a high mileage old car, and will be worth serious money only when it is fully restored. Even now, basket case 2.7RS cars aren't all *that* valuable.

The only way you could benefit *financially* from a GT3 is to use it sparingly until such time s it appreciates again. There's a few problems with this

1) You won't get to enjoy the car as it was intended

2) It will take up room at your house, even as it's value goes through an inevitable low spot (remember you could buy a 2.7RS Carrera for relatively little money not that many years ago). Your wife will complain about the old car you never use collecting dust in the garage.

3) You may well get bored of the car in the meantime and sell it for something new and sexy right when the car is at it's lowest value and many years later you will kick yourself for selling at exactly the wrong time and for nt really enjoying the car.

SO - two things to do:

1) Buy the car, use it as it was meant, take lots of pictures, and sell it for fair market value when you are bored with it. When they reach classic status, reach for your photobook and show your friends and grandchildren how cool you were and how you enjoyed the car that everyone now covets to it's fullest extent when it was new.

2) Buy the car - use it, and if you really do love it, then keep it and restore it when you retire, not to sell (because you may only just break even) but to keep forever to give to your grandchildren.

Of course it's up to you, I've thought exactly about this and I can't picture myself keeping a desirable car like that in a bell jar for twenty years. I'd want to drive it and drive it a lot and I know I'd want something different after about ten years maximum.

[Jeff Alton]

The 996 GT3?? NO the 997GT3 maybe

The 996 GT3 prices have come way down already, not sure if this is collectable or not.

However, if you drive it and like it, buy it!

Cheers

[GrantG]

The 73RS is so valuable largely because the normally aspirated cars became heavier and slower the following year and for many years to come (some would argue until 19 years later for the 964RS - still much heavier, but faster in most respects). Yes, there were some special cars like 911SCRS, but too few were made to matter in the grand scheme. I don't even think the 3.2 Clubsport was significantly faster around a track than the 2.7RS.

The GT3 Mk1, on the other hand was immediately bettered performance-wise by the Mk2 and then the 997GT3. There is every indication that there will be a 998 GT3 and it will be better still. So, I don't think we're talking collectible - just an excellent car...

[jwetering]

Sorry - I don't agree. The 911R for instance was bettered by a slew of cars that followed. So was the original 356 speedster. Hard to argue that these cars aren't valuable today.

The MkI GT3 will always be the first of the series. I woudn't be surprised if they become more valuable than the MkII and the 997 etc.

Time will tell I guess. But I still say you buy it to enjoy it, not to maybe make money one day. You'll do better investing in real estate.

FWIW - I've been checking prices on MkI GT3's and I see 60K Euro is kind of the price point - I think that's for the clubsport version even . But Geez Louise - MkII 996 GT3's outta the USA are down to $70K USD, and with exchange blah blah - that's cheaper than the MkI !

I'm fixing my sights on one of those in a few short years!

[GrantG]

You might be right, but there's one other issue with GT3 Mk1 collectibility. It's a high performance version of a car (the first series 996) that is generally unappreciated (to put it kindly) by Porsche collectors. A 1999 996 is generally considered a worse (and less valuable) car than a 1998 993...

[livi]

Thanks,

Whether it will reach an 'iconic' status or not, I still believe it should hold itŽs value far better than other contemporary models. Above all, for me personally, it ticks ALL the boxes like no other car of that era.

We will see, but if I get a chance with that kind of money, I canŽt see any other car that I would rather spend it on.

[Slider79SC]

Here's an interesting foot note. Porsche is not going to make any more 997 GT3's.....

One of the members of our region was informed that his order was canceled and that production is going to end.... WTF??

[livi]

For a very long time I have actually been set on a 964 RS. They are however climbing to ridiculous prices, with the nicer ones closing in on the early GT3. They are both very, very focused cars but seeing as the GT3 is the newer and more competent vehicle, I am leaning toward that one instead lately. 100 ponies separate them (964 RS - 260 bhp, GT3 Mk 1 - 360 bhp).

[Pingo]

Originally posted by Slider79SC
Here's an interesting foot note. Porsche is not going to make any more 997 GT3's.....

One of the members of our region was informed that his order was canceled and that production is going to end.... WTF??

Urban legend....

[Scott at Pelican Parts]

I doubt they will be much more collectible than any of the other GT3s produced so far. And if they are, it will be in 20 years when the teenage kids who hang the posters on the wall can finally afford the car they've lusted after all those years. But I doubt they will depreciate more than another ten grand or so (not taking inflation into account).

[Slider79SC]

How can it be urban legend when it has happened already to someone that I know personally?

His order was canceled.....

[jwetering]

Originally posted by Slider79SC
How can it be urban legend when it has happened already to someone that I know personally?

His order was canceled.....

The dealer could be lying or misinformed, or they could have misunderstood the factory or your friend could have misunderstood what the dealer told him.

Any of the above are possible. Our dealership is known for jerking people around just for the sake of jerking people around. They're also known for being stoopid. My guess is you friend's order was given to someone else and the salesman was told to make up an excuse and that's what he came up with. Something like that. There's no doubt the GT3 is limited edition so maybe that year's allotement, or the dealers allotement, was used up or something.

We would have heard if the GT3 was going out of production. Like Road and Track might have said something, or excellence, or panorama.

[drsimonwong]

I would have thought the modern Carrera 2.7RS would be the GT3RS? The GT3 would just be the equivalent of the 2.4S.

If you want the most affordable RS then your alternative choice of the 964RS would be better....after all it's an RS!

[GrantG]

Originally posted by drsimonwong
I would have thought the modern Carrera 2.7RS would be the GT3RS? The GT3 would just be the equivalent of the 2.4S.

Except that they actually sold more 2.7RS cars than 2.4S cars in 1973

[JeremyD]

GT2 maybe 996 GT3? probably not.

[jwetering]

Originally posted by JeremyD
GT2 maybe 996 GT3? probably not.

I've heard this before as well. Problem is the GT2 was never really that popular and was never raced. A member over here tried to get support from Porsche to take his GT2 racing and they flat out refused. Then again he was working through our dealership, which as I said before is kind of challenged.

[blue72s]

What's the difference between MkI and MkII engine? And which is better besides more power?

[GrantG]

Originally posted by blue72s
What's the difference between MkI and MkII engine? And which is better besides more power?

MkI has 360hp (usually made less in reality) and redlined at 7,600rpm.

MkII has 381 hp (and makes more in reality) and revs to 8,200rpm. MkII is the better motor...

[V12man]

I have MkI Clubsport (right hand drive).

Current value is higher than original purchase price (not accounting for inflation) and going up. (slightly differnt from Europe, but I suspect this will happen as well over the next few years). The ordinary Mk1's (non CS) are still on the downward cycle value wise here.

As far as I can find out Porsche made 49 RHD Mk1 clubsports worldwide - 7 to SA, the rest to the UK and Japan. Of the seven we got, 3 are written off - the others (2 speed yellow, 1 Red, 1 Basalt (mine) are still going strong.

360bhp is conservative - certainly it feels much more focussed as a track vehicle than the Mk2, and is not slower - our local time trial series (power to Weight classification) pits the Mk1's against the Mk2's and RS's - the current leading GT3 is a Mk1 (non CS)

Of course - winning the class is a 993RS with a cup motor.

I think that values of Mk1's might decline for a couple more years (2 - 5) and then will go up - historically there is some evidence - eg - 964RS - values appreciating, 993RS - values appreciating.

My opinion is they will eventually appreciate if they are kept in good condition - might take a few years yet, but once they are 10-12 years old, they will start going up.

Let's just say this - I am not swapping mine for a 996/7 GT3RS just yet.

If you find a good one - buy it. use it, look after it and any depreciation you might have will be well offset by the fun you have with it.

And who knows - maybe it will be an investment.