putting a 3.3 in my SC - Page 8

2002M3Drew · 09-25-2007, 08:43 PM

Very cool project...keep up the good work and the pictures...

On a related note...the 3.0 and 3.2 's are also rediculously reliable. When I think about it, I pack up my 25 year old 3.0 SC with four tires (in the passenger compartment), plus jack, tools, clothing bag, etc., and drive it 2-5 hours to a racetrack...thrash the crap out of it for 2-3 days, put everything back in, and drive home...not a hiccup, not a tick or creak in the car or motor. The car belies its age. What's more, at any given PCA event, I'm one of 50 or so 911s of approximately the same vintage with similar stories. My engine has never been opened! How many modern cars (even modern Porsches) 25 years from now will be able to tell the same story? I don't see as many 25 year old BMWs, VWs, Toyotas, Hondas, etc on the road, let alone on the track pushing 125 mph. Aside from my Miata, the Porsche is the most maintenance-free car I've owned I think.

For me, a big part of the experience is the way the door handle opens, the way the gauges look in that upright dash, the swoop of bodywork from the roof to the "butt," and of course, the unmistakeable whirl of the air-cooled six.

matty74 · matty74's Garage

2002M3Drew

F*&^% A

2002M3Drew · 09-26-2007, 08:00 AM

Matty,

Is that good or bad? "F'in A" can go both ways with inflection! ha ha ha

ianc · 10-09-2007, 08:39 PM

My roommate is the owner of The Bus Lab (www.thebuslab.com), and he 's been making noise about putting one of these motors in his Vanagon for a couple of years now.

Well, he finally got the thing in and running over the weekend. I took it for a drive today, and I was mightily impressed! Tons of grunt from the loud pedal and a beautiful sound from the exhaust. There's a touch of that characteristic flat six howl from the engine as it drives away.

I seriously think that if I dragged him in my 87 Carrera, I'd end up on the short end of the stick...

Please more news on this...

ianc

kcpaz · 10-09-2007, 09:16 PM

I have been doing things here and there lately. I started the engine wiring harness install into the chassis (I'm going to mount the ECM and relays behind the driver's seat). I also ran all of the new fuel lines using -6 braided hose, and I installed the new fuel pump (the pump will be able to support up to 600HP with a turbo

). I decided to run the fuel lines along the driver's side rocker to keep the fuel out of the interior compartment completely (this also keeps everything race legal) It added some length and cost to the fuel system, bit I feel like it was money well spent. I also finished up all of the fab on the fuel tank and made the last piece of the radiator shroud so all of the fab work related to the cooling system is done. I was also able to save up enough money to buy all of the parts I need to finish the project so now it's only a matter of finding time to work on it. I will post some more pictures this weekend to show some of the progress. It's getting close. I'm planning a trip to Monterey CA. in March for the first BIG road trip. I'm also planning on some track time before that as a test and tune session.

khamul02 · khamul02's Garage

Kit! Kit! Kit!

cubby911T · cubby911T's Garage

kcpaz - I'm not sure what I admire more, your innovation or your skills! (Or that you have demonstrated both at such a young age!) Nice going! Just curious, are you self-taught or have you received formal education to develop your skills?

kcpaz · 07:53 PM

Thank you very much for the kind words. I think you made me blush

Seriously though. I am self taught and self educated. Growing up my dad was always into hot rods and fast cars so that was sort of what I was always into. I also grew up riding motocross and I was a bit of a desert rat so I started with sandrails at a pretty young age too. I taught myself to weld and started on an old dinky MIG welder in my parent's garage. Then I started building fast turbo powered street cars (Mostly Japanese imports but a few Euro cars), which lead to my interest in road racing. From there I built a few of road cars, and landed a few jobs doing welding and fabrication. Eventually, my hobby/obsession turned into my career and I have been learning and soaking up as much information as I can ever since. Along the way I picket up TIG welding, sheet metal fabrication, race car chassis fabrication and preparation, turbo systems and engine management, suspension design and set-up and paint and body. I am a firm believer in keeping an open mind to new ideas, and constantly learning from all kinds of motor sports and since I am so young (only 25) I still feel like I have SOOOOO much to learn. I'm excited for what's next

matty74 · matty74's Garage

2002M3Drew

it's good.

I agree with you completly on the robustness of the 911 engine, my 3.0 just keeps going no matter what i dish out.

onsse · 10-16-2007, 04:33 PM

go go go... can't wait to see the final outcome.

kcpaz · 10-17-2007, 07:53 PM

okay, here are a few little updates. I started installing the engine harness in the chassis. I poked a hole in the firewall near the shock tower for the harness to enter the interior. Since I retained the stock harness grommet, I just used that where it would have normally would have gone in the Subaru chassis. I'm going to mount the ECM behind the driver's side seat, under the rear seat.

I also wired in my SPAL fan controller, and re-made the harness to clean things up so it doesn't look aftermarket. I will now be able to control exactly when the fans come on, and one of the two fans will have the option of variable speed. So as the temps get hotter, the one fan runs faster. Once the one fan gets to 100%, the other one will turn on. It's a pretty cool, compact system.

The other big accomplishment was the fuel line plumbing from the fuel tank. I ran a -8 to 1/2" push lock hose to the Pierburg pump (mounted in the stock location with no modification) which can support up to 600HP. Then from the pump, I ran a -6 180 degree fitting to the feed line. The feed line runs along side the driver's side rocker and to a filter in the engine bay. Then it feeds the fuel rails and the excess fuel feeds back to the tank via another -6 line along the rocker.

I also finished up the tank by welding in the fuel filler elbow

ianc · 10-18-2007, 07:07 PM

Looking very nice; I'm really looking forward to seeing this one hit the road!

Still on target for the Christmas christening?

ianc

kcpaz · 10-18-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianc

Looking very nice; I'm really looking forward to seeing this one hit the road!

Still on target for the Christmas christening?

ianc

Hopefully I can get it up and running by next month. I have all of the parts....accept for a few small things. I just need to spend some quality time in the garage.

rrnixonjr · 10-19-2007, 07:45 AM

Thanks for sharing your project. Very impressive, I have been wanting to see this done for years. I have an 89 Carrera that runs great, love the 3.2 engine, but would not hesitate to do what you are doing to an older rolling chassis if I only had the skill.

Thought you might be interested in looking at what potential others have found in a Subaru 3.0 liter engine. With you sandrail background I am sure you already know. Here is a thread which I hope you will enjoy looking at.

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29905

nilknarf · nilknarf's Garage

I'm very interested in a potential kit as well (especially after hearing about the price of the engine and hearing the sound clips!)- I just learned that my 2.7 is going to take a lot of new part$ to bring it back from the dead... has anyone considered the merits of the Renegade Hybrids V8 radiator setup for the Subie install?

Curt

dickepoohp · dickepoohp's Garage

but one of the reasons I fell in love with these cars way back in the 70's was the sound of the "Porsche flat 6".

This seems to come up a lot. My old 356 with a racing type homemade exhaust was terrifically satisfying, but having recently acquired a 6 (79SC) with what I assume is a stock exhaust, so far I have failed to "hear" that delicious sound(s). Sounds pretty busy back there, but doesn't (IMO) hold a candle to the sound of my kid's dinky little 84 CRX-SI with a straight pipe. Granted I am sporting early model ears now. Perhaps better hearing another going by at high revs.

kcpaz · 10-19-2007, 05:55 PM

The Renegade Hybrids cooling system/fuel tank would probably work just fine with a Subie engine. you just have to be sure to run the top outlet of the radiator to the top outlet of the engine, and the bottom to the bottom. I haven't seen any good pictures of their cooling system, but there are a lot of people out there who seem happy with their set-up. The fuel tank that I'm going to run at first is only a 10 gallon tank, which IMO, is a bit small for most people to feel comfortable with. It should still give a range of about 240-260 mpg, which I'm okay with, but some might want more capacity. Eventually I will probably offer a different tank that goes up on top of the smuggler's compartment and has a thru-hood fill. Part of the reason the first tank is only 10 gallons is because I couldn't build it any taller than the factory filler neck, and I wanted the conversion to be truly bolt-in with no permanent modifications to the chassis or body.

I have done research on the 3.0 Subaru 6 (like what Perrin used in their 6 cylinder STI) and in the future, I will probably make a 3.0 conversion kit. The reason I went with the 3.3 is because the factory engine management (from the SVX) is OBDI which makes adapting it to the Porsche chassis very easy. With the 3.0, I would probably just go with an aftermarket stand-alone engine management which is more expensive. The other reason I went with the 3.3 is because of how cheap you can buy the used engines. The advantages of the 3.0 are pretty tempting though. Porsche influenced variable valve timing, more compact, lighter engine, and they are a better platform for high boost forced induction. The good thing about Subaru, is that like Porsche, they all have the same tranny bolt pattern so the same adapter kit can be used for either engines.

As far as the notorious "Porsche sound". I can appreciate the sound of the Porsche engines, but the Subaru engines are different. The Porsche engines are like Chevy V8's. They gurgle, rumble, and pop. They have a raspy sound in the upper RPM's and they don't sound like they are revving as high as they really are. The Subaru engines (especially the 6 cylinders) sound more tight, more refined... more exotic. They sound more rev happy. This is just my opinion though. I like both really.

rrnixonjr · 10-20-2007, 10:09 AM

If you were going to use a stand alone computer system for the 3.0 liter, which would you pick?

kcpaz · 10-20-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrnixonjr

If you were going to use a stand alone computer system for the 3.0 liter, which would you pick?

If I could afford it, MoTec. On a budget... maybe Link, EMS, MegaSquirt, SDS, AEM, although I haven't heard very good things about AEM lately.

Why do you ask

Carl_Boehme · 04:46 PM

The way radiator lays in there reminds me of my old 64 Corvette. Very nice conversion with beautiful workmanship. Three Cheers!