Suspension Upgrade

[ez2lov]

Hi guys i have a 1980 SC updated to a 930 turbo Cab Slantnose all steel body with a 3.6 conversion in it.
I would like to update my suspension cause mine is still the stock setup , What works or what can i upgrade too , has anyone upgraded there suspension to a newer setup? I really just dont want to do shocks would like to go the distance with a newer setup.
If anyone could give me some feedback would be appreciated
Thank you
George

[bkreigsr]

George, the board first needs to know how you intend on using your SC. By 'newer', are you talking about an aftermarket coil-over kit, or just making everything bigger and stiffer? You really don't want to do the newer 5 link set up of the 993 or 996 do you?
Just remember that when you get all done, you will still have a light sports car with the engine hung out over the rear axle and all the inherent handling characteristics that go with that configuration, good and bad.
Bill K

[ez2lov]

The car is a daily driver im not going to use it on the track at all, i was thinking maybe upgrading to the C2 or 964 setup if possible, or even the 930 suspension , there are so many possibilities the only problem is i dont know what will work in regards to calipers disks , trailing arms etc . I know there are porsche owners out there that have upgraded suspension on earlier cars and just wanted to know more or less what they went with and how good there car handles and stops , I could just get the koni sport inserts and shocks , and hope the car handles well but then there is the stopping factor , i purchased brembos last year but still have the stock calipers , my mechanic informed me that the car is to light and fast for my brakes if this makes sense . So im due to change the shocks right now but if i can get a newer suspension that is complete out of a newer car and it will work in mine thought that might be the way to go?
Thank you for your input on this
George

[RWebb]

What is the car used for?

Don't downgrade the car by putting on an "upgrade" that is inferior for your usage.

For a street car, you will want to replace every piece of rubber in the suspension - that will keep you busy for a while.

[ez2lov]

I use the car strictly for the street hope this helps in finding a solution
Thank you
George

[RWebb]

Replcase all the rubber in the suspension. For the front, either use new A-arms, refurbed A-arms from SRP or the Elephant poly-bronze items.

Fo r the rear use new rubber. You _could_ put in the Wevo needle bearing gizmos if you want to spend big.

Put in new Bilsteins if the mileage on the old ones is > 60,000.

Lower to Euro settings & get the car corner balanced.

That is all you want to do for the street.

You can _consider_ thicker torsion bars (but not too much) and anti-sway bars to match. These will degrade your ride and handling over bumps, but will lessen body roll during cornering. If you corner very aggressively than you'll notice reduced weight transfer.

Search on suspension for many many threads.

Do NOT try to put in coil-overs or any of that.

[Jeff Alton]

For the street Randy's advice is great. If you want a wee bit more sporting feel, try torison bars in the 22/28 or 22/29 range with custom valved shocks. This way the ride may actaully improve at the same time the handling gets better. Subjective of course, but with properly matched shocks a car with larger torsion bars may ride as good or better than a stock set up.


Randy is right about the coilovers. They are overkill for the street. Yes, I have them in my car, but if you are considering it, drop me an email and I will explain the pros cons of the various options. In the end you will probably still opt for stock torsion bars or slightly larger ones and leave the coil overs to the folks that use their cars on the track.

Cheers

[keez]

Jeff - sent you a pm. Kirk

[ez2lov]

That sounds great , Bilsteins as apposed to koni sports? What i originally wanted was the bilstiens but got turned away cause people said the sport koni's were a better fit. I guess it is preference . What i was intending to do was put in the sport koni's , weltmeister rear sway bar cause my ca dosent have one and get a strut brace. Since my car just got a 3.6 993 motor installed and is tweeked in at about 310hp with all the goodies on it i still have the stock SC brakes my mechanic says this is a big problem to stop the car if i really have to jump on the brakes, should i move up to the big reds or just leave the brakes alone and do the suspension?

What type of bilsteins do you recomend?
Thank you
George

[stlrj]

The best upgrade for your suspension is to upgrade the owner to learn how to do your own alignment so that you could fine tune it to fit your driving style and personality.

As some have said, "the devil is in the details".

Cheers,

Joe

[ez2lov]

Lol Joe i wish i had the time to do alot of things like that , would make life so much easier, my mechanic is good to me i just go to his shop with some beer after hours and he does little stuff for me all the time and dosent charge me, He has been a good friend for over 25 years so im lucky like that. Just wish i could get this suspension worked out so i can put my mind to ease and his.
Thanks
George

[stlrj]

George,

You should be so lucky to have such a friend.

Perhaps he could explain to you what adjustments he can make to your suspension to give you what you are searching for.

His lessons would be invaluable.


Cheers,

Joe

[RWebb]

Bilsteins are said to be better than Konis by those who should know. My guess is that Konis got a high rep. decades ago, and then got bypassed by technology.

BTW - I run a light car with 21/27 torsion bars - but that is a "sport" (i.e. harsher setup). Like Jeff says, you'll have to make up your own mind. Just evaluate the ride and handling carefully and don't get blinged out...

[ez2lov]

Joe
My shocks are still the factory fronts and the rears when i purchased the car where equipped with some aftermarket shocks that are white in color. All he told me was now that i have this motor is that i need to upgrade the suspension and brakes, He is a good mechanic but when it comes to upgrading and that sorta stuff this post is where you want to get answers

RWebb thank you for your info im going to purchase the bilstiens tommorrow and the weltmiester rear sway bar and the turbo tie rods , after this is done im going to upgrade the brakes to the big reds then hopefully it will be ok .
Thanks
George

[RWebb]

white in color ---> Kill Your Backs (KYBs)

Get ready for bliss when you switch to Bilsteins (or Konis, or Boges, or almost anything else...)


Ooooops! Big Reds? I thought it was street car? No need and they will harm the handling by increasing the unsprung wt. Fight the Bling.

[ez2lov]

Really the big reds will harm the handling , ok i will just do the susupension then and see how good the car stops and handles after , then i will go from there.
Thank you RWebb
George

[Walt Fricke]

George

You are getting good advice about suspension and brake overkill.

For a street car you want to keep a suspension in line with what Porsche did. The factory had some pretty good ideas about what compromises to make so that a car handled well on the street, but didn't ride too harshly.

Lots of us have modified the dickens out of our cars so they handle better on race tracks or in autocrosses, but still drive them on the street. We have just gotten used to a rather harsh ride, and the creaks and squeaks. You will like your car a lot better if you don't do this to it. You will never find occasion driving spiritedly but sensibly on the street to need a whole bunch of suspension upgrades. It is a Porsche 911, for heaven's sake. It was born handling well.

As to brakes, you will never outdrive your stock SC brakes on the street unless you drive like some crazed street racer. The stock brakes will stop your car just as quickly as expensive big reds (which might cause you to need to buy rims of larger diameter, among other things, so those heavy suckers will fit without hitting the rims). Your car isn't that much heavier, and big brakes only allow you to do more high speed braking repeatedly without heating things up too much - on a race track. If you do this on the street you need to have your license pulled and your head examined.

Your mechanic is not out of line, though, in suggesting a brake upgrade. When Porsche upped the HP from the SC level to their first turbos, it did increase the braking capacity - the turbo brakes. If you like the idea of bigger brakes even when you won't really use that extra capacity, try going to 911 turbo brakes, or one of the 944 turbo setups. These will be more in line with what you have, since that is pretty much what you did, just without the turbo. A slightly lower buck upgrade would be to go to the 3.2 brakes (basically thicker rotors, and bits to fit them).

On the suspension side, just refreshing in one way or another the stock suspension (now over 25 years old) ought to be fine. The 964 suspension has some small advantages, but not so much that anyone upgrades to that. The 993 and later suspensions are even better, but an upgrade to them is major major surgery and big $.

My SC is a track/street car, modified toward the track end of things almost as far as it can go with torsion bars. I love it, and put up with removing the steering wheel so I can get out over the roll cage, but if I could afford two such cars, I'd drive one with stock suspension on the street exclusively. We once had a stock 3.2, and it did everything I could want on the highway just fine, and left my fillings in place as well.

Walt Fricke

[ez2lov]

Wow thats why i love this post you get common sense replies from great people who have gone threw it, i ordered the sport bilstiens today , 22m weltmiester sway bars for front and back, turbo tie rods and a strut brace,hope all this works well thank you for all your help on this matter .
Thank you
George

[RWebb]

and BTW, "upping the brakes" means you are increasing the ability of the system to store heat (and sometimes to dissipate it better). You are not adding additional friction or torque.

[palle7688]

It seems you have the half package, looks and power. Now you need the rest - to make it handle and stop.

What Walt said upgrade to turbo brakes (or as minmum Carrera brakes). You really should, at least, have the same stopping power as the turbo with your 310 hp. Paint them red if you want bling.
Why was the 3.6L 310 hp installed?? My guess is: not because you wanted to cruise??!!!
RWebb: with the turbo brakes you are upgrading to additional friction and torque and thermal reserve. With Carrera brakes you only gain thermal reserve with the thicker rotors, the calipers are the same, just wider.

The same goes with suspension, new bushes, shocks, tie rods and sway bars, all good. Strut brace, for street - not needed.
BTW, sway bars should always match front /rear as with torsion bars. Otherwise you'll have over/under- steer.
Harder shocks should also be followed by matching torsion bars. Bilstein sport are hard shocks and you really should have harder, like 21/27 mm, torsion bars.
I have koni sport adjustable and have been very happy with them.

edited for spelling.