Need advice making an offer for a very clean '78 911 SC

[Augustus]

Hello All,

In my searching for a clean 911 I came upon a very nice 1978 911 SC. The owner wants an offer and I'm not experienced enough to make one.
I need help.

The car:

1978 911 SC Silver, black interior with working sunroof. 150,000 miles

Two owners.

Original paint, Still somewhat shiny, the front bumper was repainted two years ago. No dings or scratches.

Interior is as new. It is spotless. Slight wear to the drivers seat. Passenger seat appears to be never sat in.

Nice rubber around all the windows and the bright work is still very bright. As are the tail lights.

Stock wheels. Modern tires.

Top end rebuild @ 100,000 miles

All papers, manuals and tools.

I'm willing spend more than market value because in the two years I've been looking this is the cleanest 911 I've found. I have even looked at '88 Carreras but the askings prices have always been in the $25K- $28k range.
And thats close to 993 territory. Not that I want a 993 I don't. I want a 1978 to 1988 coupe, a clean one. All original.

Anyway, can you fellows help me with determining what my offer should be?

Many thanks!

[Paul K]

Get a PPI. Post pics and the results here. We'll be better able to give you numbers then- and you can negotiate from there.

[85eurocarrera]

How does it drive? Where are you located? 12K and go from there?

[Mike Stanko]

Augustus,

After shopping and following asking prices of SC's for about the past 6 months, I recently purchased an '83. I think I have a decent feel for prices in the midwest and northeast.

You provided some good info to start. I think we'll need a little more to help dial the number in for you.

Where is the car?
Compared with an SC in great mechanical shape, how does it drive...accelerate, brake, handle, and shift?
Newer clutch (rubber or spring)?
Any tranny work ever performed?
6F/7R Fuchs? 15 or 16"
Any desirible factory options...LSD, Sport Seats?
Mileage of last valve adjustment?


I'm sure this will start a firestorm, but in general, the prices in Excellence seem pretty good to perhaps a touch high for metro midwest cities and the northeast proper. Yes, yes, someone here will tell you about their $14.5 42K miles like new purchase, but remember, you'll hear proportionately more good stories (great buys) on an enthusiast site like this than occur in the norm. It also depends on how hard (much time) you shop, how good of a negotiator you are, and some luck (blessing ).

The 8/07 Excellence lists a '78 (w/ average miles...about what you have) as:

$13501 so-so
$15351 good
$20550 excellent

There's a lot of spread between good and excellent. Perhaps subjectivity too.

Done right, you can always toss out a lower number to start things off.

And don't forget the PPI by an experienced shop or expert. I'd recommend a leakdown test and head stud check.

Mike

[ramonesfreak]

does it have upgraded chain tensioners? i didnt get a PPI and so far have been lucky. got an 83 with 94K miles, all original, new clutch, new syncros, pop-off valve, chain tensioners, some work history, NO rust, NO oil drips whatsover. Needed new tires immediately and some other very minor stuff, like odometer fix and recalibrate speedo, new heater duct hoses, rubber smile, belt change etc... still needs a new windshield and probably suspension bushings...lots of door dings but otherwise in awsome shape and the color i wanted and year i wanted. paid $14K. he was asking 14.5 and would not budge below 14K. bought it on the spot cause im nutty that way.

check very carefully for rust everywhere with a flashlight (lift up floor carpets etc...) !!!!!!!!!! even though these engines run a long time, at 150K, i wouldnt be comfortable spending more than 11K for your car and would get it checked out to make sure the work done, was done right. there are alot of SC's out there...but then again, if its the one you want...pay what you feel comfortable paying. seems to me though, if your willing to spend 13-16K, you can choose from alot of different cars. to me, finding the car locally meant alot. i would never buy a car from a distance sight unseen and i dont have the time or means to be flying all over the country. Upstate NY --not alot of nice SC's around so i grabbed it !

[ramonesfreak]

oh...and as I re-read your post...it seems like the seller wants YOU to make an offer. You mean he hasnt told you how much he wants for it? thats uncool in my opinion and makes me feel like he is attempting to take advantage of you. If he has had the car that long and driven it that much and spent $ to rebuild and maintain, im pretty sure he knows what its worth. If its your neighbor or grandpa or something then thats ok. If you dont know the guy, I think it would be more normal for him to put a price on it first

--Dont you think it is important to have an idea what HE believes his 911 is worth to him? I do. Why was the bumper painted? crash?

good luck

[DW SD]

where do you live? I think $25k+ carreras are far from the norm. I see regularly someone new on this forum who picked up a nice carrera for $13k to $18k. Nice is relative, but SCs should be 10k to 14k, depending upon how much work they need, miles, maintenance records, etc.

Since he's not given you a number, make a low offer and cite your rationale. A bottom end rebuild on an SC is $8k at least. 150k is not the limit, but could be depending upon maintenance and luck.

Most cars have significant defered maintenance.

Tell him you were thinking of offering him $11k. Start there. Don't overpay.

Doug

[fredmeister]

I am selling a very similar mileage car and with alot more mechanical improvements from what it sounds like in your description. Mine is a 79 911SC and is for sale in the classified section of this site. Check it out and contact me if you want to discuss it in more detail. I would be happy in talking to you. I am asking $14,500.
--------do a search under my username: fredmeister
Fred

[burgermeister]

Be sure to check the front suspension pan for rust. It can look lovely and be solid from above and look immaculate from below, but poke at the cross-car area just forward of the fuel tank from below, towards the LH front A-arm mount...if it's soft, it will cost money.

[sabeo.m]

I've had my 80 sc going on 2 months now. My PPI went extremely well...I have around 126k on mine, paid 11.5 for it. Which i thought was a steal. Even after the PPI and the expert told me all i had to do is get new tires, i've put in a good 2k into the car! Your going to want to replace all the old basic parts, oil change, transmission fluid, etc... All it took was for me to get a hold of Wayne's book, 101 projects for 911 and it was all over! The guy's on this board know exactly what they are talking about! Good Luck and welcome to our obsession!

[FenderGuy]

Originally Posted by Mike Stanko

The 8/07 Excellence lists a '78 (w/ average miles...about what you have) as:

$13501 so-so
$15351 good
$20550 excellent

Excellence lists are a joke to a buyer, I've seen so called excellent models go for less then 15k

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by FenderGuy

Excellence lists are a joke to a buyer, I've seen so called excellent models go for less then 15k

They can be a joke to the seller too. It really all depends on the desirability of the particular model, supply and demand. Then, it's condition-condition-condition.

[mca]

Originally Posted by FenderGuy

Excellence lists are a joke to a buyer, I've seen so called excellent models go for less then 15k

There are always exceptions to the rule. But I agree that the SCs seem to be selling for a lot less than the market values show.

Curiously, NADA lists even higher market values for the SC. At least these numbers provide ammunition when dealing with insurance agencies in the event that the car is wounded.

What I can't understand is how so many SCs with rebuilt trannys/engines are selling in the 13K and under range. Seems a little suspect to me. After all, a rebuild on a 3.0 usually runs anywhere from 6k to 12k depending on what needs to be replaced.

[Gogar]

+1 that the SELLER wants you to make an offer because HE's not sure how much, either. That can be to your advantage unless he thinks it's a $20k car.

IMO, if a PPI checks out OK and you don't find any rust issues or undisclosed accident damage, $14k at the VERY most.

I bought my 83SC with 75k in very good condition for $16k, and it had a fresh (5k) top-bottom engine and complete trans rebuild. I think I did pretty good.

[David E. Clark]

OK, this ought to be good for a laugh. Edmunds "True Market Value" goes back to 1980. He is what they say for a 1980 SC with 150,000 miles in "outstanding" (the best) condition.

1980 Porsche 911 2 Dr SC Coupe
Color: Silver
Mileage: 150,000
Condition: Outstanding

Trade-in: $1,543
Private Party: $2,688
Dealer Retail: $4,602

[FenderGuy]

Originally Posted by David E. Clark

OK, this ought to be good for a laugh. Edmunds "True Market Value" goes back to 1980. He is what they say for a 1980 SC with 150,000 miles in "outstanding" (the best) condition.

1980 Porsche 911 2 Dr SC Coupe
Color: Silver
Mileage: 150,000
Condition: Outstanding

Trade-in: $1,543
Private Party: $2,688
Dealer Retail: $4,602

Now that's a steal

[mca]

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1982&m=1144&d=934&c=9&vi=84913&z=29464&da=-1

NADA

[yelcab1]

I bought 3 years ago:

1980 911SCS
Excellent paint, same color repaint
Excellent interior, dirty but no rips
Excellent engine, no broken studs, no real issues, dirty and needed cleaning up
180,000 miles.

$8500, in California.

I could have driven it as is, but that is just not me, so:

$3000 later, I have added:

1. Engine sealing kit for an engine out, clean up, reseal, and replacement of all hard to get to stuff. repainting of the tins, and the fan, replacement of engine sound pad, seal for sun roof, repair of the fan motor
2. Carrera oil fed tensioners
3. All air and oil hoses replace, tune ups, valve adjustment, oil / filter / air filter change,
4. A new 930S steering wheel.
5. Carrera tail and painting it
6. Carpet out seat out cleaning
7. Shocks rebuilt to Sport by Bilstein

Real happy eversince. I got 190K miles on it now, burned through some tires too.

So SC go for $10,000 plus/minus $2000 for excellent to crappy shape. If it is a 50K miles cream puff, somebody will pay 20K for it, but there is only 1 person lke that in 10 states. And, maybe Japan.

That is my experience. I am not Bruce Andersen, I pay real money for my cars.

[Mysterytrain]

You west coast guys are spoiled with lots of nice cars to sort thru. Out on the east coast we don't have the numbers and we have salt. I don't see many 10k cars that give me a woody. Its true that SC seem to go and go forever but at 180k miles stuff is going to start to need fixin'. YMMV

[Augustus]

Thank you everyone for your input, its much appreciated.

The seller declined my offer of $13,000.00. He NOW wants $18,000.00

I'm still looking.......