Odometer rolled back

Numskull · 08-14-2007, 06:24 AM

Hello! I bought a Porsche 911 from a dealership less than 2 months ago. In addition to the vehicle being seriously misrepresented by the dealership, I just found some written evidence that the current odometer reading is not correct. (By the way, if anybody near Chicago knows of a good consumer protection lawyer, let me know!!).

My main question to you is whether it is possible to tell whether an odometer on a 911 has been tampered with or replaced? I have the written evidence, but if this can be confirmed visually, that may help. Also, I am curious on this.

Live and learn.

Needless to say, I hope to be in the market for a nice replacement 911 in the next few months.

Ken K.

EarlyPorsche · 08-14-2007, 06:29 AM

I don't think there is any way to figure out if it has been changed as there aren't any specific numbers that match the chassis to the speedometer that I know of. I think with the proof you should be able to get a full refund of all costs. For example on my Porsche the speedometer worked but the odometer suddenly stopped. I had to send it out to be rebuilt but they keep the mileage the exact same as what you sent it in with. If your odometer couldn't be rebuilt someone may have just swapped a new one in or something and if thats the case they should have an odometer disclosure or something I think. Thats what I recall hearing is the norm. Again, good luck, sorry I couldn't be of any real help just some speculation but keep us updated after you talk to an attorney.

old man neri · 08-14-2007, 06:52 AM

Do you mind if I ask what dealership?

Esel Mann · 08-14-2007, 06:59 AM

I presume that this is with respect to an older car with mechanical odometer. There are some tell-tale signs. A couple of tell-tale signs that something is or may not be right with the odometer:

- Gauge silkscreen coloration versus other gauges in the car. As the car ages, the silkscreen on the gauges typically fades somewhat over time. If the silkscreen coloration of the speedo is noticably brighter, the original speedo has possibly been replaced. The replacement could possibly be a new unit or a partially used unit. I would caution on using this alone. It is possible that a previous owner had the gauge silkscreen redone. This one is best used in conjunction with either of the two below.

- Non professional odometer adjustment. In order to adjust the odometer, one needs to get at the elements within the unit itself. To do this, the outer face ring needs to be removed. A non-professional almost always re-uses the face ring. In doing so there almost always is evidence of the ring being removed.

- Back side of gauge information. On the back side of the gauge there is information stamped on it. I do not believe that this information has stayed constant over the years. Find out what the information translates to and compare this to the information for a speedometer which is original for your car. This will take some detective work, but this board has folks which are a repository of almost never used knowledge about Porsches. Waiting to impart such knowledge for instances such as this.

Carlton

Formerly Steve Wilkinson · 08-14-2007, 07:07 AM

Pull the speedo far enough out of the IP so that you can look at the bezel--the shiny chrome ring around it that holds the glass in place. It might have been professionally removed (to get at the odometer) and replaced, using the proper tool, typically a device that mechanically rolls the bezel smoothly back into place; an instrument shop specializing in Porsches would certainly have one.

But...if it was _not_ done professionally, somebody would have carefully pried the bezel off with a thin tool of some sort, turned back the odo and then tap-tap-tapped the bezel back into place. Works just fine--I've done it, as has anybody who has fixed a broken odometer gear--but the marks of it having been done, little ripples and tiny unevenness in the metal of the bezel on the back side of the instrument, are unmistakable.

na2ub · 08-14-2007, 08:15 AM

Even if the odometer has been opened or switched, I don't think there is any way to tell if the mileage has been altered. I opened mine to replace the odometer gear, but would not consider my car a example of odometer fraud. I would have to disclose to the buyer, however, that there is about 1,000 more miles on the car than the odometer reads, which is the period during which the odometer gear was broken.

Doug

Numskull · 08-14-2007, 09:12 AM

Thanks everyone for the responses.

Old Man Neri - I'm in a bit of a delicate situation with this dealership now, but will mention the name later as they really did seriously misrepresent the car in a number of ways. In fact, I'll become their "PR firm" as I'm quite unhappy.

In order to pre-empt too many comments about how I should have had a PPI, I hereby claim that I will never buy another car without doing a lot more homework, including a PPI.

As for the odometer issue, it was apparently rolled back quite awhile ago by at least 40,000 miles. The carfax report shows 81,000 miles in 1996 and a 1999 registration shows 44,000 miles. I am told by an attorney friend of mine that the dealership should be required to refund my money even if they didn't roll the mileage back nor had knowledge of it. However, he has to do more research and I need to find an attorney who specializes in these cases. No response to my faxes from the dealership yet and I am guessing they will not agree to a refund.

Thanks again.... really like this forum.

Ken K.

Numskull · 08-14-2007, 09:14 AM

By the way, the 1999 registration which I mention above just happened to be in the glove compartment of the car and didn't show up on carfax. A lucky break for me.

Porsche_monkey · 08-14-2007, 09:24 AM

It is entirely possible the dealer was scammed on the trade in. Or not. Either way they need to refund your money or negotiate a cash rebate.