Time for a buffing and Waxing, need advice..

[shanghai_todd]

With my 4 day weekend starting I have decided it is time to spend some time detailing the car. For the time I have purchased the car the paint has shown some problem in what I believe to be the clear coat or previous waxing. on the front fenders there are small circles in the surface, and on rear areas of the car I can see water spotting that seems to be under the wax

Does anyone have expierence with this?

My plan of attache is to using a buffing compond followed by a hand waxing.

I have tested in a small area with the circles in the clear coat/wax and it can be removed when I hit it with rubbing compond but I am not sure if this is the right thing to do to the entire car so I am looking for advice

[tcar]

Wash car w/ a 1:4 mixture of white vinegar and water only. Rub w/ sponge until the water spots are gone.

They may not go away if they've been there for years.

Water spots on glass, do the same or use clay.

[David E. Clark]

From the excellent Autopia car care web site:

"WATER SPOTS & SWIRL MARKS

I get a lot of questions from people regarding water spots and swirl marks. Water spots and swirl marks are different problems, but most often the solution is the same: polish the paint. I'll address each problem separately.

The same water you use to bathe your car can also damage your car's paint. The spots and damage are caused by the minerals in the water. When water evaporates off of your car's paint, it leaves behind the trace elements it contains. Calcium and metals are the most damaging ingredients found in your tap water. Rainwater may contain damaging acids from air pollutants.

Getting rid of water spots is easy if you chase after them. The best solution is to use a quick detailing spray after you wash, or as soon as you discover the spots (i.e., when your neighbor's sprinkler gets you).

If the spots are allowed to dry and bake on, they will attach to and harden on your paint. When this happens, you need to use a mild acid to get them loose. Believe it or not, the best acid is also the least expensive and most available: a gallon jug of distilled white vinegar.

Expert car detailers have known this secret for years. If you take your car to a pro, they will tell you about the "magic acid bath" and charge you $60 or more for the pleasure of smelling like a pickle. Save the $60. Put on some gloves and get to it.

To give your car the magic acid bath, first wash your car with your normal car shampoo, rinse, and then use the distilled vinegar. Just wipe it on with a sponge, and rub it in. Do one section at a time. Let it sit 30 to 60 seconds, and then rinse. When you're done, wash the car again with shampoo, and then rinse. By the way, vinegar will remove your wax, so be prepared to re-wax your car after the vinegar treatment.

If water spots are allowed to stay for more than a week or so, the minerals will etch the paint. In this case, using vinegar will remove the mineral spots, but the paint will have etched spots (dimples). It is necessary to use a polish or mild polishing compound to restore the paint surface.

How-to Remove Swirl Marks

Swirl marks are nothing more than micro marring in the paint surface. Under a microscope, they appear to be scratches; however, you can't feel these scratches with your fingers or finger nail.

A buffer in the hands of a pro can do wonders on a car that has heavy oxidation or minor scratches. Most body shops can use a buffer to blend touch-ups to perfection. Unfortunately, many detail shops and buffer owners don't know how to use the tool, or they use the wrong buffing pads or compounds.

Incorrect use of a buffer or polisher is not the only cause of swirl marks. Every time you wash or wipe down your car, you create micro marring. The severity of the micro marring depends on your tools and the contaminants present. Here are the ten most frequent causes of micro marring (swirl marks):

Polishers/buffers with the incorrect pad or an untrained operator.


Harsh polishing compounds and paint cleaners.


Towels and applicators containing polyester threads.


A dirty chamois or a chamois that has not been properly maintained.


Wiping down a dusty or dirty car with a dry towel.


A dirty car duster or a car duster used on a car with too much dirt on the surface.


Not keeping your wash mitt or sponge properly rinsed.


Automated car washes with brushes and other wipers.


Not rinsing your car completely before washing, or not washing your car thoroughly before drying.


Using a car cover when the car or the cover is not clean.

The most noticeable areas for swirl marks are the hood and trunk. On dark-colored cars, they might also show up on the doors and fenders. Bright colors do not show swirl marks as much because they reflect more light. That doesn't mean they don't get swirl marks; the marks just show up more readily on dark colors. Black, of course, is the worst of all colors for displaying swirls and other imperfections.

Swirl marks can be removed by polishing. Polishing out swirl marks without a buffer is a lot of work. I recommend polishing your car one small section at a time so you can see the progress.

To remove swirl marks, use a good polish or "swirl remover." Many polish manufacturers market a special polish for removing swirls. Swirl remover polish formulas typically contain fillers and oils to help hide swirl marks. With regular polishing, over time, swirl marks will diminish. It's very difficult to completely remove swirl marks. Even the best towels and wash tools cause some micromarring.

Polishing to Remove Water Spots & Swirl Marks

If your water spots or swirl marks are severe, I recommend using a product like Sonus Restore (SFX-1) to knock them down. Follow the application of SFX-1 (or any other cutting polish) with a gloss-enhancing polish, such as Sonus Enhance (SFX-2). In all cases, use a good foam applicator pad to apply compounds and polishes. Use the least abrasive pad necessary to get the job done. For hand polishing, the Sonus SFX Professional Applicator work very well."

[chuckr]

What year car ? original paint ? Looks to be water spots. Rubbing compound will work if it
is the right kind.... not too abrasive. I'd suggest 3M 1500 grit compound. A good polish
would also work...Mequiars #82 maybe. I perfer Clearcoat Red Moose Glaze, but what you have looks to be a tough one to get out. Good Luck with it !

[shanghai_todd]

Chuck, The car was painted when the body kit was installed but this was all done by the previous owner, I am planning a trip to the auto store later and will keep my eye out...Still waiting for more replies but have been reading a lot of good remarks about Mequiars

[RWebb]

rubbing compound is not a detailing tool -- if you are absolutely certain of your abilities, you could use it.

Check and see if you need to use a clay bar, then do the vinegar treatment.

Next, use Meguiars Body Scrub in the red bottle (no Q in the
name) and use it with a random orbit buffer or the P/c sander. Use a quality foam pad. I used this 12 times to restore a heavily chalked car.

Only if that fails should a fine compound be used. "polishing compound" to most companies but not to Meguairs.

A Rubbing Compound is coarser and is the last resort.

[azasadny]

I used a Claybar (purchased from the Autopia website) and it removed the water spots and debris. i followed this wth a polish and wax and the water spots are gone and haven't returned...

[shanghai_todd]

Thanks RWebb, I am going to run out and check to see what the local store offers for clay bars and will also look for the body scrub.

I will try a small section tonight before tackling the entire car, I have 2 areas where the water spotting is real bad and the front fender has a area where the circles are very noticible. If it works in these two sections I will stat my weekend project.

Is the body scrub a wax or paste?

[MOMO3.2]

I am no detail expert. I don't want to be. BUT, the clay bar is MAGIC!

A couple months ago, my neighbor had his house painted. I had no idea they were going to spray and I just happend to leave my car in the driveway that day. When I arrived home, I noticed their house was painted and their cars were fully protected with platic tarps--Doh!

Sure enough, every inch of my black Carrera had paint overspray on it! My car is a driver so, I decided not to say anything to the neighbor. Anyway, I finally tried a Mothers clay bar on it because no amount of waxing or buffing would remove a single fleck of overspray and there were probably over a million. The clay bar not only removed every speck of overspray, it totally rejuvinated my paint. I am really surprised and impressed.

Mike

[azasadny]

Originally Posted by MOMO3.2

I am no detail expert. I don't want to be. BUT, the clay bar is MAGIC!

A couple months ago, my neighbor had his house painted. I had no idea they were going to spray and I just happend to leave my car in the driveway that day. When I arrived home, I noticed their house was painted and their cars were fully protected with platic tarps--Doh!

Sure enough, every inch of my black Carrera had paint overspray on it! My car is a driver so, I decided not to say anything to the neighbor. Anyway, I finally tried a Mothers clay bar on it because no amount of waxing or buffing would remove a single fleck of overspray and there were probably over a million. The clay bar not only removed every speck of overspray, it totally rejuvinated my paint. I am really surprised and impressed.

Mike

The claybar treatment brought my car's and my mother's car's paint job "back from the dead". It's easy to use, keep it lubed up and glide the clay along, don't rub and you'll be amazed what it removes!

[shanghai_todd]

MOMO, I would have been locked up if a neighbor did that to my Porsche...

I just got back from the local auto store and below is what I have for my arsenal, also in the order I plan on using.
(1) Meguiars Smooth Surface Clay Kit
(2) Vinegar
(3) Step 1 Meguiars Paint Cleaner
(4) Step 2 Meguiars Polish
(5) Step 3 Carnuauba Wax

Also purchased a handful of micro fiber cloths and a small hand buffer to help out with the job.

Will keep you posted on the progress

[stealthn]

Before going the abrasive route; if the water spots are under the wax, you need to remove all the wax first to get at them. I would recommend using Dawn dish washing liquid and water, this will completely take off all wax and hopefully take some of the water spots off too. Then do the bar, wax etc.

Good luck.

[RWebb]

body scrub (red bottle) is a very very fine abrasive along with some high zoot chemicals

it is safe for us amateurs to use...

[MOMO3.2]

Hey Todd:

My neighbor is pretty cool. I did not want to stress him out. When I showed my 20 year old son and told him I was going to let it slide he exclaimed: "you are a lot nicer than I am dad." It was probably a good lesson or example for him, because I avoided stressing my neighbor and with a little hard work, the paint on my car looks better than it has in over 4 years.

Art:

The paint on your 911 looks absolutely AMAZING in every picture I have seen. I almost can't believe how good it looks. It is like one of those Red's cinnamon candies from the 1970's {Sweet and spicy)!

Mike

[amschnellsten]

My car was worse and had a bad paint job, I had orange peel bad and overspray and my paint guy (not the one who painted it) told me to use wizards. You can find it at paint shops. All their products are incredible. They have a swirl remover and everything else to make your car perfect. I used a clay bar on my wifes Audi which had a lot of scratches, swirls, fading ect and the clay cleaned it up. I used the wizards final cut polish which is used for taking out sanding marks and waxes at the same time. The audi looked new again.

[shanghai_todd]

After hours of trial and error with multiple products I have been able to remove the water spots but the pre exsisting scratchs are not removable.

I have tried by hand and a small hand held pollisher but I do not believe it has enough HP to do the Job.

I am going to check around and probably look into buying a high speed buffer like a porter cable or other brands..

Does not make since to proceed with polishing and waxing if I can not remove the scratches.

[snbush67]

If the scratches are just in the clear coat you may be able to sand then out with 1500 or 2000 grit and then buff.

[RWebb]

1st thing, try another Meguiars product, ScratchX -- it comes in a tube

or look for some other similar product - it will be called a scratch filler. Mothers is a decent brand. P21S Zaino etc. are all good

If that does not work then someone will have take off the top layers of paint or clear coat. I wold find the very best body shop in your town & I would never attempt this myself. Go to a custom rod or car show & Find the guys that the people there like to use. A US car show is fine. Avoid the ones that mainly do insurance work. And esp. avoid the cut rate places.

Good luck.

[amschnellsten]

Its up to you. I wet sanded this car with 1500 grit then used the wizards. I was outside for nine hours but it was worth it. I had a high speed buffer for my air compressor but It locked up on me half way through the job. I had to run out and buy a buffer. I found a electric variable speed buffer at harbor freight. I would never buy anything from harbor freight because it is normally a throw away item but I have had this thing buffing my audi, jeep and triumph and it is still holding up. For $28 not bad.

[jeffrey2]

Does the clay work on metallic too or is there a separate solution to clean it up? I've clayed my old black 911, but it wasn't metallic; used rubbing compound on a metallic car before and learned that I was not a pro.