Shift COupler info needed. (How much slop is ok)

[myrddin]

OK here is the deal... I had my transmission rebuilt about 350 miles ago... it shifts fine in 1st and 2nd however it is hit and miss in 3rd and 4th. Its an odd feeling... real spongy like a rubber feel... And it pops in gear after a Little pushing... However sometimes it shifts in as easy as any other gear... Now today I found a post talking about how easy and good of an improvement it can be to replace worn bushings and the coupler... So the easy thing to check first is the coupler... I removed the panel and cut the zip tie to reveal the coupler... I moved it side to side and I noticed there is a lot of slop in the grommet around the center pin... I then put my finger on the center pin and move the shifter and I see there is a pretty good gap on both sides all the way around.... Well I found this pic on another thread (same as above) showing that he had a lot of space as well... looks like mine.



Now I have not checked my shifter ball cup bushing or the shift rod bushing yet... But I need to know if the pic you see (real close to what mine looks like) is an excessive amount of play or about what it should look like.... I drive the car every day (for now) and am trying to get it up to date with maintenance.... your thoughts are welcome, please let me know.....

[myrddin]

also wanted to add, that the shop that rebuilt the transmission said they replaced the shift coupler... it does look new (I guess, it's clean anyway) and there is a new boot to cover it.... There is also a noticible amount of play in the front ball cup bushing as well when looking down with a flash light....


Any thoughts... I am starting to think its normal to have the slack in the bushings???

[khamul02]

That can not be a new bushing. Those things need replacing. I replaced mine and they didn't look that bad. Later I replaced my coupler with a wevo and it made a rebuilt tranny with 20K miles on it fell brand new.

[myrddin]

When you replaced yours was there any gap arround the bushing (like next to the center pin)? And with the wevo coupler did it make more noise/vibration? I dont mind paying money... but I want to keep my stock feel.....

Also what about the ball cup bushing? Should I be able to look down and see slack in it while moving the shifter back and forth? The thing is when it does fight me on going into gear it feels real rubbery and I thought I could blame that on slop or bad bushings but it may be that the transmission is still breaking in and when it refuses to go into gear I just feel the effects of the rubber bushings is all.

I want to replace them if need be, however if its supposed to be this way then I see no reason to waist my money.... I was hoping after spending 3600.00 bucks the transmission would feel like new and it does when it moves into gear but when it refuses to go into gear at first and I have to move it out and try, try, try agn it makes me feel like it is what it is... and I expeceted so much more out of a car like this..... But if this is what I should expect then I will just have to over look it....

please feel free to offer your thoughts....

[khamul02]

When you replaced yours was there any gap arround the bushing (like next to the center pin)?

There was a gap but it wasn't as bad as the one pictured. Also, the stock bushing did make an improvement.

And with the wevo coupler did it make more noise/vibration? I dont mind paying money... but I want to keep my stock feel.....

If you research the Wevo you'll find that people may say that but I never noticed anything other than a crisper feel.

Also what about the ball cup bushing? Should I be able to look down and see slack in it while moving the shifter back and forth? The thing is when it does fight me on going into gear it feels real rubbery and I thought I could blame that on slop or bad bushings but it may be that the transmission is still breaking in and when it refuses to go into gear I just feel the effects of the rubber bushings is all.

That sounds strange to me. Maybe someone else will chime in. If I were one, to start with I would change all of the bushings. It's not that bad and there are a ton of threads here to help. Make sure to mark your coupler as stated in those thread.

If you want to go all out you can get the wevo and throw it in although I have heard of a ton of people on this board say the stock bushing are enough.

I want to replace them if need be, however if its supposed to be this way then I see no reason to waist my money....

I would just about guarantee that this is not the way it should be. Not for me anyway. I'm shock they didn't replace all of these bushing when reinstalling the tranny, just to make their work seem that much better.

I was hoping after spending 3600.00 bucks the transmission would feel like new and it does when it moves into gear but when it refuses to go into gear at first and I have to move it out and try, try, try agn it makes me feel like it is what it is... and I expeceted so much more out of a car like this..... But if this is what I should expect then I will just have to over look it....

[myrddin]

well replacing the bushings is easy enough.... My fear is that it will not help... but its cheep so I guess I will try it so at least I know where I stand. I dont have a problem at all replacing the shift coupler with the wevo one but I have a fear that if i spent the 200.00 bucks that it will be the same... even if it will be a bit crisper.... I am afraid it will still fight me on shifting into 3rd and 4th... and then I would be out 200.00..... I may try the bushings first and see where I stand... then at least I will know first hand that they are new.... and at that point I can decide what the next step will be.....

I do feel like they at least replaced the gromets in the shift coupler even though there is a little gap... I look at it and it just looks new.... even the rubber seams brand new... However the ball cup bushing looks verry yellow/brown so I dont know for sure there.


please let me know of your thoughts... as I am not really sure at this point.

[khamul02]

Yes, first replace all of the bushings. If you are going to mess with one you might as well do them all. After that you should be fine. The wevo is just going to make things a bit more crisp. But if you have a fresh Tranny (and it was done right) then the bushing alone should make things great.

If not I would question the quality of the rebuild on your tranny or the initial shift linkage adjustment. There is a tech article on adjusting the coupler but I would do that after replacing all of the bushing and putting the coupler back in the way it is now if there is no improvment.

[myrddin]

well I guess I will order my shift bushing kit tonight.... Wonder if the short shift kit would help?

[Gene Wilkes]

Since you posted my shifter bushing I suspect you've read this post!
Little Maintenance – Big Improvement: Shift Linkage Bushings
+1 on Tom's suggestion: replace all your shift bushings!! I went the wevo route and added the Seine shift gate.........damn what a difference!!!!

[myrddin]

islandmanpa..... Yes your thread is what got me thinking.... I hear that there is supposed to be a little slop in the coupler so I am thinking they did replace the coupler.... But I feel like the other shift bushings are old... I am going to replace them all for good measure so I will know for sure.

With the adition of the wevo coupler did you get any noise or vibration? I drive it every day and do not want to introduce any new noise... And do you think I should replace the trans/motor mounts? If I do what would you recomend... Sport club? or Wevo or combo?

last thing... Did you do the short shift kit? If so did this improve your feel? I was thinking about the Seine as well but want all other things sorted first.... No need to waist money when it all ends up like it is now...

please let me know your thoughts.....

[Todd Simpson]

You will find that same slop on brand new bushings. It's designed into the factory coupler to allow some play.

[oregonmon]

I just did the bushings kit and I was really satisfied with the outcome. I didn't really think that my old bushings looked that bad but with the new ones it did make a nice improvement. After installing them use the tech article for the adjustment. I would recommend the project, but I don't know about the wevo coupler or short shift kit.

[myrddin]

Todd Simpson thanks for the info... I am thinking mine is new... THey said they did it and it looks like they did plus there is a new boot over it.. The rubber arround the center pin feel soft like a new set.. not beat up or dry or dirty... However the front ones are yellow - brown and I cant say for sure they are new... first thought is old... And you can also see a gap... What I did was place the shifter in gear and then took a flash light and watched the ball/cup bushing and I could see a gap when I moved the shifter arround....

oregonmon - did you notice any gaps after you replaced them? I have done the coupler adjustment and it makes no diff.. But keep in mind it shifts nice in all gears... But it fights me often in 3rd and 4th... however if I softly try it 2-3 times it will then glide right in like I would expect it to do everytime.


Any thoughts on what I should try?

all bushings to be safe and replace the motor and transmission mounts?
stock shift bushings
clup sport mounts
??


Man I will be glad when I get past all this stuff.... I know things should be caught up and all but man.... I like doing things when I want for enjoyment or emprovement... not because I have a list of broken or odd things that need to be done asap.... After this I have an odd clicking noise comming from my front left wheel its worse when I turn right but seems to be a constant click noise while the car is rolling...

thanks guys, its nice that I can ask other questions

[Gene Wilkes]

"With the adition of the wevo coupler did you get any noise or vibration? I drive it every day and do not want to introduce any new noise... And do you think I should replace the trans/motor mounts? If I do what would you recomend... Sport club? or Wevo or combo?

last thing... Did you do the short shift kit? If so did this improve your feel? I was thinking about the Seine as well but want all other things sorted first.... No need to waist money when it all ends up like it is now..."

No noise with the wevo shift coupler. You could replace the bushing in your existing coupler and get similar results! If you are running the original engine and tranny mounts you might consider replacing them. Stick with stock unless you have a dedicated race machine! I didn't go the short shift route. Using stock. I'm tall w/long arms! The Seine was a BIG improvement over the previous 'mystery shift'!!

[myrddin]

thnx... I guess it only makes sence to replace all the bushings first so I know with out a doubt that they are new... from what you say with good bushings it should shift well... everything else would just be minor upgrades... this sound right?

I will also replace the mounts for good measure... I can see the shift lever move a bit when I give the car gas... Plus they look ruff (at least the motor mounts do).

I am thinking best to hold off on short shift till shifting is working at a normal rate with no trouble... I may just be introducing more trouble making a lot of changes at once....

Now that I know I need to replace the shift bushings and I am doing the stock ones to see what happens... What I need to decide is stock or sport cup mounts?

I was told both are soft and sport are 1 step harder than stock... (also looks like a standard for cabs???)

Half way there.... (at least for this problem)

[khamul02]

Here is everything I did & I love it:

1. Factory short shift ($199.25)
2. All new bushings ($ 24.00)
3. wevo coupler ($195.00)
4. wevo semi solids in on the engine ($160.00)
5. sports on the tranny ($ 54.00)
6. Seine gate shift kit ($148.65)
($ 50.00) misc shipping
////// $830.90 //////////// Ouch, that's a lot of cash

All this made my 20K miles ago rebuilt Tranny feel awesome. I have no troubles getting into any gear & I had lots with 1st and 2nd before all of this stuff. Money well spent no extra noise or vibration with this configuration.

[myrddin]

OK here is what I just orderd:
4 of the sport Mounts 911 Sport Motor/Transmission Mount - (911-375-043-07-M61) I guess the transmission and motor mounts are the same??
Engine Mount Washer x4

shift bushing kit:
Shift Rod Bushing in Tunnel Behind Shifter
Ball Cup Shift Bushing at base of shift lever
Shift Coupler Bushings

Also while I am doing some repair:
new gas cap
Bump Steer Kit 911/911 Turbo 1974-89 914 1973-76

I hope this make it all come togeather... If not I quit spending money for a while.... long while.


thanks guys. future upgrades will envolve wevo but I fugure first thing first.. get it working right.

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Todd Simpson

You will find that same slop on brand new bushings. It's designed into the factory coupler to allow some play.

That's correct - that's what they look like new. The play is there supposedly to compensate for chassis flex so that you don't have the gear shift moving around or going out of gear when you go around a hard corner.

-Wayne

[Tim Hancock]

In case anyone wants to see what the original coupler bushings look like (the "play" built into them) look at the pics in my old post here. DIY shift bushings-pics

The "play" in a new bushing is theoretically only supposed to compensate for slight misalignment in the trans input shaft and the long shift rod in the tunnel. Basically the stock bushings have a slot instead of a perfectly round hole. In a perfect world, the coupler pin rides in this slot and does not have any play in a rotating motion. I made mine without the "slots" out of a relatively hard plastic (black delrin). It did reduce play even though the stock bushings "looked" like they were still in good shape (still is tight after a couple of years). Any play in any of the bushings the system is multiplied quite a bit ant the end of the long shifter.

[myrddin]

Thanks Wayne.... You think the parts I ordered should help me out... I sure hope so. I guess I will still replace mine so I can say with no questions it has been done... even if I already paid someone else to do it??

Tim, I am thinking you have something worth marketing... real nice work...


I can only hope that this will be the last of my problems.... Waiting for my goodies...

If all is good and it shifts like it should with no more fighting 3rd and 4th when ever it feels like not doing its job.... I will order the short shift kit... then if that also works fine, I will get that Seine gate shift kit....

but first is first... a new rebuild should not be making its on decisions on when and how it wants to shift...