t-bars vs sway and shocks

[leverpuller]

Which is better for cornering and which is better for rough calif. roads... On my 82 I have 89 sway bars and sport bilstiens rack spacers,turbo ty's and euro ride height, plus 16x8 and 16x7 plus corner balanced. this is a jarring ride but its tight and predictable but, Im looking for a softer ride. Will t-bars be a better place to start? And reduce the sway bar diameters? Or maybe raise the car? Any help?

[Steve@Rennsport]

Hi:

The real answer is that ALL those suspension components work together to make the car handle and deal with differing road surfaces.

That said, those Sport Bilsteins are at the root cause of the jarring ride and I would suggest either using HD Bilsteins with stock torsion bars or upgrading the T-bars to improve handling AND have those Sport shocks revalved to match. One option would be to have your existing Sport shocks revalved for the OEM T-bars, as well.

JMHO, but Bilstein's valving (especially compression) leaves a LOT to be desired, at least for 911's. We have a lot more success wiyth our own settings.

[stlrj]

If your ride is lower than this, it isn't at true euro height:

http://coochas.com/brochures/Resources/911SC-1981.pdf

Getting it to this level would be a good start.

[EarlySport]

I'm running sport bilsteins in my RS replica with 18 front, 24.5mm rear torsion bars ( stock SC sizes ). I do have 22mm sways front and rear. My ride is exceptionally harsh, which I am sure is due to the Bilsteins.

That said I am going to bigger TB's when I can, as this is a track-focused car. I think the ride will get worse again, but probably not as bad as the change from factory Bilsteins to the sport units.

[safe]

If you want a softer ride, get some tires with a little more sidewall.

[wastintime]

I think steve has a good point, but here's how I would tell you to think about this...

Torsion bars act like the springs on a coilover... let's not get into a 3 hour discussion, just go along with that assumption. sway bars, more than anything else are just a tuning device, the real suspension work is done by the shocks and springs, so in terms of overall stiffness, sways really should have a marginal affect, they are a tuning device. Spring rate and shock valving will always have more to with your ride than the sways. Not just in terms of how stiff or jarring the ride is, but if the spring rate is not correct for the shock valving and vice versa, you will have a worse ride than if the same relative stiffness, but with properly mated shocks and springs.

The other thing to consider is tire pressures... as a general rule, 1lb of air pressure is worth about 7lbs of spring rate. That's why car dealerships tend to underinflate tires. I'm not saying run 20lbs in the rear, but especially in city driving, you can back off a pound or two and notice a little bit softer ride.

[David]

I've always found sway bars to add more to the harsh ride than torsion bars or springs. So my vote is loose the big sway bars and go up a little on the torsions.

[Scott at Pelican Parts]

I would suggest keeping your Carrera sway bars and stock SC torsion bars (I think that's what you have?) and change the shocks to Bilstein HD. I have that combo on my 1971 911E and it is perfect -- comfortable ride, but doesn't sway much in the corners.

[burgermeister]

Another way to look at it is that, for normal speeds and bumps whose length aren't measured in feet, torsion bars react to vertical wheel displacement (how big is the bump), whereas shocks react to vertical wheel velocity (how steep is the bump / how fast are you going)....

I'd go with new shocks also.

Another thing not good for ride is worn A-arm and trailing arm bushings. If your suspension pieces are bottomed out on the torsion bars due to eccentric bushings, it will cause some additional harshness (though nothing horribly annoying like you're describing).

The carrera-stock sway bars are not likely to be an issue IMO - your car is not too different from a carrera, and carreras ride just fine, even in Michigan, and bottomed out on the torsion bars (I have experience )