Do I really need turbo tie rods??

[Wickd89]

Well guys,
I was really wondering if I should swap out my tie rods.

I have a 1989 3.2 Cabrio which is pretty clean (California car, always garaged, always maintained). The shocks were changed around 20K miles ago and it drives pretty nice. Actually when it was PPI by Dutch Treats, they said the car drove perfectly and needed nothing (except ac recharge if I wanted).

At 103K miles, I assume most rubber bushings are likely in poor condition, no matter if the car has been garaged its entire life. I have always heard that the car would steer much better.

Do you guys think that the car would be greatly improved with new turbo tie rods?

Do you guys think that I should swap out my rubber bushings for new ones at the same time? maybe even change to plastic ones ??


thanks in advance......

[slodave]

Luis,

You drive on the streets only. You really wouldn't need TTR, but, since you are asking, replace yours with the TTR's. Seems like you are trying to stiffen up your car.

Dave

[livi]

No matter if you go for turbo or stock tie rods, new ones will likely make a significant improvement as far as directness in feel of the steering wheel. The turbo variant has a different design and will enhance that feeling (or at least keep it longer).

[burgermeister]

Sounds like you don't need anything. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The real question is, do you want to spend some time and $$ to wrench on your car? Sometimes wrenching can be a lot of fun. Sometimes not so much. Very situation dependent....

Myself, I'd wait until something forces you to take a bunch of related stuff apart, and then I'd go after everything that came off the car. If you just wait until you cook a battery and destroy the suspension pan, you'll have the entire front end apart and then you can replace bushings and tie rods at leisure on a workbench, with very little additional work! (guess how I know? Battery cooking was accomplished by PO in my case...)

[JohnJL]

If you know it hasnt been replaced already or looks shabby, its a good first or easy project and will definately help tighten things up. You can replace with either standard or turbo, I like the second from our host.

[DanielDudley]

You don't need tie rods until the old ones wear out.

[gunlover05]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

You don't need tie rods until the old ones wear out.

David is 100% right....I replace my tie rods this summer...the boots were cut, but didn't seem to have any play yet. I decided since the boots were cut, I'd just replace with TTRs. The job is a real PIA! Not sure what someone will charge but took me 6-8 hours of knucklebusting.

Bottom line is I couldn't tell a Huge difference from my stock rods (they weren't worn really, just boots cut). Now that i have a strut brace, I think I can tell a difference in steering feel and general quickness...but TTR alone, I really couldn't tell that much. Mind you I'm getting into AX more and more, which is why I did them..

LEAVE'M ALONE TILL YOU HAVE TO HAVE NEW TIE RODS.

[dtw]

My wrench swears he cannot get a 911 to take a good alignment on ANY stock tie rods. My 85k '76 911 had stock rods that appeared to be in great shape - when I took it in for alignment he yelled at me for not replacing them when I was rebuilding the car. So, while handling 'feel' may be a side benefit of turbo tie rods, maybe the real benefit is consistent/accurate toe settings?

[island911]

Good points...

Dave. I think that your mechanic is being a bit dramatic. That is, everything flexes. under heavy load. If he can't set it w/ no load... well....

On the other hand, if he. had suggested alignment would hold better under heavy braking 'then maybe he would have a point.

In most conditions the (steering) loads on the tie rods are low. (these cars don't have PS). -I'm a bit skeptical when people claim crisper feel w/TTR's. . . more likely they got a decent alignment after parts were installed... not because the parts are different design.

[dtw]

He actually test drives and re-checks settings. The rubber bushings in the old ones won't hold a toe setting. Easy to see when you tear a pair apart. Dramatic? Yeah, ol' Jimmy's a real drama queen.

People wax poetic about the 'feel' b/c they just went from 20 year old worn out tie rods to brand new ones.

[island911]

now you say "old"?

Originally Posted by dtw

My wrench swears he cannot get a 911 to take a good alignment on ANY stock tie rods.....

hmm, yet somehow Porsche has been doing this for decades.

perhaps Jimmy standards are higher than Porsche standards.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by island911

Good points...

Dave. I think that your mechanic is being a bit dramatic. That is, everything flexes. under heavy load. If he can't set it w/ no load... well....

On the other hand, if he. had suggested alignment would hold better under heavy braking 'then maybe he would have a point.

In most conditions the (steering) loads on the tie rods are low. (these cars don't have PS). -I'm a bit skeptical when people claim crisper feel w/TTR's. . . more likely they got a decent alignment after parts were installed... not because the parts are different design.

I don't know, those rubber things are pretty funky. Left over VW design, methinks. TTR's are a way better overall design. Why wouldn't you want them?

[dtw]

Sorry, context. Yes, any '65 to say '89 with original tie rods, no matter the mileage. Even he thought mine might make it with 85k. No love.

(did I win)

[island911]

Originally Posted by milt

I don't know, those rubber things are pretty funky. Left over VW design, methinks. TTR's are a way better overall design. Why wouldn't you want them?

Educated guessing says Porsche had their reasons for keeping two versions in inventory. (note; they didn't do that with the "turbo valve covers") One thought is the rubber decouples vibrations to the rack and pinion . . .which in turn helps minimze wear to the center section of the rack. And, with lower loads, than developed by the turbo (note also the different wheel offsets*) Porsche likely saw an appropriate balance and benefit for each solution. . .in each respective application.


*quite obviously, the 930 pushed the front wheels outward. This geometry will load the tierods more than the narrow bodied geometry. And then, you add the big brakes, more weight and bigger wheels and tires, on that outboard spindle... all adding up to much larger loads.

. . .but maybe your model of "left over VW bug parts" is more accurate. I dunno. Did engineers or bean counters drive the design of the 911?

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

You don't need tie rods until the old ones wear out.

+1... and at that point then replace with the turbo units... funny how we want to fix what is not broken just to do something to the car for "proactive" reasons... I don't blame you, I do the same all the time...

[nut11]

Install em. For my application, the difference was marginal but there's a noticeable enhanced go karty feel plus, you've completed the upgrade sooner than later. If you DE or regularly track the sweet heart, it can only help.

87 blk coupe

[RWebb]

The design of the 911 was first driven by engineers. Later, the bean counters drove the changes...

Grady has commented on this - looks to have begun in serious form in the 1980s.

I'd go ahead and put tubo tie rods on. If yours are in great shape, there will be a rel. small change in feel. But many look for this when buying, and they will likely last the rest of your life. You can also get up close & personal with all the hardened and warped rubber bushings while you're in there.

[joe payne]

luis,

i put them on my 78 sc coupe. it's a good upgrade for performance driving, even on mountain roads they help. Not really sure how much they're needed for you and how you drive your car though. I would have them professionally installed because they're a bit of a pain to set up correctly and you want to have the car aligned after they're installed.
You can talk to Steve Alarcon of Johnson's Alignment in Torrance @ 310-370-6301.
He charged me $100.00 to install and $48.00 for front end alignment.
Make sure you buy the real deal tie rods though because their's some cheap ones out there.

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by slodave

Luis,

You drive on the streets only. You really wouldn't need TTR, but, since you are asking, replace yours with the TTR's. Seems like you are trying to stiffen up your car.

Dave

Ouch Dude. Are you saying that no one should improve their cars if they only drive them on a track? I really like to have my car as close to "new condition" as possible so changing out the tie rods seemed like a good idea.

[JeremyD]

You will notice the difference even on the street. I did mine at 55k miles - it helps take out some of the slop. yeah island I said slop. Age and wear do not make rubber components perform better.