Daniel Stern

[cal7380]

I was impressed with the information on danielsternlighting.com. Does anyone have a recommendation for somebody in the San Francisco Bay Area who can competently do some headlight work?

[DW SD]

have you thought of mobileworks west?

Not knowing what you have in mind is limiting, but doesn't sound extreme. Tom Amon has a good reputation and comes to you.

Doug

[tcar]

What kind of headlight work? Little more info would help.

[cal7380]

Originally Posted by tcar

What kind of headlight work? Little more info would help.

I was thinking about doing the H5 to H4 conversion, but I wanted to have it done totally correctly. Thanks.

[Peter Bull]

The easiest way should be to get Euro headlamps. AFAIK they fit directly. They're available from our host.

A decent relay kit will allow you to use stronger bulbs, there are some discussions about that here, and here.

/Peter

[spuggy]

+1 What Peter says. The Bosch H4's drop right into a US car.

If you really do have H5's, they're not standard for your year. And the connectors are different, so you'd need to swap those back to the H4 type.

Look to see if you have fluting on the glass lense at the front, or if it's flat. If you don't have fluting to focus the beam, then you likely have the standard fitment for your car - namely the DOT-approved, US-only, H4 sealed beam units (which do the focusing in their lense), in a US-only bucket type - and the outer glass is merely for aero/protect the headlight.

You could actually replace those with the Cibie E-code H4 reflector units (that take H4 bulbs) from Dan Stern, and retain your existing buckets. Drop in replacement. These are actually an even better beam pattern than the Bosch H4's IMO, and cheaper.

Both Bosch and Hella are good, but Cibie is the gold standard...

Headlight replacement of either type is covered by this Tech Article:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_h4_headlamps/mult_h4_headlamps.htm


Like Dan Stern says, dull lights are caused by two things, voltage drop at the bulbs, and the depositing of the filament on the inside of the glass. The latter is easy to remedy - fit new bulbs.

The ready-made relay kits are the easiest route to remove excess current through the headlight switch and provide a dedicated current path to the bulbs.

To get the very best possible results, you need to minimise the voltage drop as much as you can. The kits I've seen mount the relays near the fuse box, which is unnecessarily far away from the headlight bulbs. IMHO.

I would personally prefer to buy some generic relays and heavy-duty H4 connectors (e.g. from Mr Stern) and make up a short headlamp harness with some serious gauge wire, using a tap straight from the battery terminal and a dedicated ground return from the headlamps. Solder it up nicely and use heatshrink. But then, I find that sort of thing enjoyable...

You probably wouldn't even need high-wattage bulbs if you do this.

That said, I'm running stock H4's and bulbs with the factory harness with good grounds, and I drive country roads at night - I'm very happy with the improvement over the H5's that were fitted when I bought the car. If I'd had sealed beams, I'd have fitted Cibie's.

I do intend to make up a harness with relays and do it right, but it's not exactly a pressing problem for me.

[Macroni]

I loved him in "Home Alone"

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by spuggy

If you really do have H5's, they're not standard for your year.

The H5's are certainly standard on his US '88.

As noted, different connectors will need to be spliced for H4's, relays are recommended, and the H4's have different trim rings to be sourced and painted.




Tim

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by tchanson

The H5's are certainly standard on his US '88.

My bad, I thought they came in with the 964 for some reason.

Fun facts: The H4 was the world's first 2-filament halogen automotive bulb. It was introduced in Europe in 1971, and was used in many millions of European and Japanese headlamps starting in that year, but wasn't legalized in the US (where it was designated HB2 or 9003) until over two decades later, in 1992!

[MIK911]

Originally Posted by spuggy

+


I would personally prefer to buy some generic relays and heavy-duty H4 connectors (e.g. from Mr Stern) and make up a short headlamp harness with some serious gauge wire, using a tap straight from the battery terminal and a dedicated ground return from the headlamps. Solder it up nicely and use heatshrink. But then, I find that sort of thing enjoyable...

.

Could you describe in detail in VERY simple terms how to make a "short headlamp harness"?
I have H1's with a Sucro relay installed, but want to go to 100W bulbs, so should upgrade the wiring. I am electrically impaired, so could you describe which wires to replace? and how? how do you access the headlamp bucket from the trunk with the new wire?

thanks in advance

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by MIK911

Could you describe in detail in VERY simple terms how to make a "short headlamp harness"?
I have H1's with a Sucro relay installed, but want to go to 100W bulbs, so should upgrade the wiring. I am electrically impaired, so could you describe which wires to replace? and how? how do you access the headlamp bucket from the trunk with the new wire?

thanks in advance

MIK911,

Do a search on headlights and find the posts by me and ZONAS. We have competing wiring diagrams in one of the threads.

Basically, you want to use the power from the factory fuse panel to energize the coils in your new headlamp relays. The contacts in your head lamp relays take power directly from the battery (through a fuse) to the headlamp. You will need three wires for each headlamp, a ground wire, a high beam power and a low beam power.

[spuggy]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to diss anyone's efforts by any means - the Sucro kits and the other approaches I've seen posted here are undoubtedly a vast improvement on the factory installation in many respects.

And, unless you're prepared to build your own wiring harness, you're pretty much limited to buying someone's kit.

However, my Porche-owning started with a 944 with US sealed beams - a car where you had to switch the lights off on a unlit road in the rain to be convinced that they were, in fact, on. You really couldn't tell...

And my approach is that, if you're going to go to the trouble of doing something, you may as well do it right the first time, as it's cheaper in the long run. I don't always succeed at this, but I do try...

Originally Posted by HarryD

Basically, you want to use the power from the factory fuse panel to energize the coils in your new headlamp relays.

Whilst this might be much more convenient and give acceptable results, I don't agree that going back to the fusebox and then forward again to the lights is optimal from an electrical POV.

I agree entirely that it'll probably integrate the best, visually, with the factory wiring. But that's not especially high on my list of priorities. I'd actually prefer to replace the factory fusebox with something better, rather than use the existing one for running large amounts of power through. Your mileage, as they say, may vary. Just my preference.

The philosophy used by IceShark (RIP) was to minimize the length of power runs. There were no compromises in his approach, material selection or build quality, and he got the best results I've seen.

First pics in this thread shows 944 H4 US sealed beams replaced with Cibie H4's and a totally over-engineered wiring harness fitted directly to the alternator take-off (aka "the light cannon kit"). I believe these are standard-wattage bulbs, too. Pictures speak louder than words:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=134230&highlight=IceShark

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to diss anyone's efforts by any means - the Sucro kits and the other approaches I've seen posted here are undoubtedly a vast improvement on the factory installation in many respects.

And, unless you're prepared to build your own wiring harness, you're pretty much limited to buying someone's kit.

However, my Porche-owning started with a 944 with US sealed beams - a car where you had to switch the lights off on a unlit road in the rain to be convinced that they were, in fact, on. You really couldn't tell...

And my approach is that, if you're going to go to the trouble of doing something, you may as well do it right the first time, as it's cheaper in the long run. I don't always succeed at this, but I do try...



Whilst this might be much more convenient and give acceptable results, I don't agree that going back to the fusebox and then forward again to the lights is optimal from an electrical POV.

I agree entirely that it'll probably integrate the best, visually, with the factory wiring. But that's not especially high on my list of priorities. I'd actually prefer to replace the factory fusebox with something better, rather than use the existing one for running large amounts of power through. Your mileage, as they say, may vary. Just my preference.

The philosophy used by IceShark (RIP) was to minimize the length of power runs. There were no compromises in his approach, material selection or build quality, and he got the best results I've seen.

First pics in this thread shows 944 H4 US sealed beams replaced with Cibie H4's and a totally over-engineered wiring harness fitted directly to the alternator take-off (aka "the light cannon kit"). I believe these are standard-wattage bulbs, too. Pictures speak louder than words:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=134230&highlight=IceShark

Spuggy,

I believe you misunderstood my post. I am NOT suggesting that you use the existing factory wiring to power the headlamps, only energize the coils of the relays. The contacts of the relays will carry the heavy loads and can be as close or far as you want from the head lamps.

While it is your car/your choice, I for one want to keep the factory wiring intact as much as possible. The reason is that if I go to my own wiring, then any pro will either charge me a fortune to truobleshoot electrical problems or just refuse to work on my car. To me, this is not acceptable.

FYI, this is the wiring diagram of how I did/plan to do my car:



and here is a good thread on several approches to solving hte problem: Sucro Relay Kit.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Spuggy,

I believe you misunderstood my post. I am NOT suggesting that you use the existing factory wiring to power the headlamps,

??? I completely understood that, and don't really understand why you thought that I didn't.

only energize the coils of the relays. The contacts of the relays will carry the heavy loads and can be as close or far as you want from the head lamps.

The longer the wiring runs to the headlamps, the greater the voltage drop.

The more puny the wiring run, the greater the voltage drop.

The current gets switched by the relays. If the relays are located in the fuse box (or the dash, or the engine bay), then the wiring run from the relays - the main power one that carries the current to the lights, the one which we're trying to reduce the voltage drop on for the most effective lighting - is longer than it needs to be. Simple as that.

It will thus inherently have a greater voltage drop than the absolute minimum length run possible.

In case this seems a little pedantic, .5v difference (between 13V & 13.5V) on a 9006 bulb is 13% difference in lumen output (1054 vs. 1198). Same bulb. If you can get another .5V - e.g. 14V - to the bulb (rated life voltage BTW), you'll get 1356 lumens.

In case this is a revelation to anyone, Daniel Stern has this to say:

"In many cases, the thin factory wires are inadequate even for the stock headlamp equipment. Headlamp bulb light output is severely compromised with decreased voltage. The drop in light output is not linear, it is exponential with the power 3.4."

"When operating voltage drops to 95 percent (12.54v), headlamp bulbs produce only 83 percent of their rated light output. When voltage drops to 90 percent (11.88v), bulb output is only 67 percent of what it should be. And when voltage drops to 85 percent (11.22v), bulb output is a paltry 53 percent of normal! It is much more common than you might think for factory headlamp wiring/switch setups to produce this kind of voltage drop, especially once they're no longer brand new and the connections have accumulated some corrosion and dirt."

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

The shortest possible power harness can be made up as completely add-on, utilising an H4 (or whatever you have) male connector to feed the switched signal (minimal current) from the headlight switch into the relay control input(s).

With no cutting or modification of the factory harness necessary, all the benefits of minimising the length of the wiring runs and a direct feed from the battery terminals to maximise the voltage available.

Just another way to do it. Not even my idea.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by spuggy;3619895The longer the wiring runs to the headlamps, the greater the voltage drop.

The more puny the wiring run, the greater the voltage drop.

The current gets switched by the relays. If the relays are located in the fuse box (or the dash, or the engine bay), then the wiring run from the relays - the main power one that carries the current to the lights, the one which we're trying to reduce the voltage drop on for the most effective lighting - is longer than it needs to be. Simple as that.

It will thus inherently have a greater voltage drop than the absolute minimum length run possible.

In case this seems a little pedantic, .5v difference (between 13V & 13.5V) on a 9006 bulb is 13% difference in lumen output (1054 vs. 1198). Same bulb. If you can get another .5V - e.g. 14V - to the bulb (rated life voltage BTW), you'll get 1356 lumens.

In case this is a revelation to anyone, Daniel Stern has this to say:

"In many cases, the thin factory wires are inadequate even for the stock headlamp equipment. Headlamp bulb light output is severely compromised with decreased voltage. The drop in light output is not linear, it is exponential with the power 3.4."

"When operating voltage drops to 95 percent (12.54v), headlamp bulbs produce only 83 percent of their rated light output. When voltage drops to 90 percent (11.88v), bulb output is only 67 percent of what it should be. And when voltage drops to 85 percent (11.22v), bulb output is a paltry 53 percent of normal! It is much more common than you might think for factory headlamp wiring/switch setups to produce this kind of voltage drop, especially once they're no longer brand new and the connections have accumulated some corrosion and dirt."

[url

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html[/url]

The shortest possible power harness can be made up as completely add-on, utilising an H4 (or whatever you have) male connector to feed the switched signal (minimal current) from the headlight switch into the relay control input(s).

With no cutting or modification of the factory harness necessary, all the benefits of minimising the length of the wiring runs and a direct feed from the battery terminals to maximise the voltage available.

Just another way to do it. Not even my idea.

Agreed, shorter wires are theoretically better. Also larger diameter wires are better as well.

That said, in truth it is not significant to worry about the length. If you use AWG 12 wire (factory is roughly 16), you have effectively no voltage drop in any reasonable length of wire for the current draws. Why? Because 12 ga THHN Wire has an ampacity of 40 amps.

Knowing that Watts = volts * amps, we find for a 100 W lamp and a 12 volt supply the current draw is 100/12 or 8.33 amps. For two lamps, it would be double or 16.66 amps. This is less than 50% of the capacity of a 12 awg wire, hence, the length of the wire is insignificant unless you are running it for thousands fo feet. As a matter of fact 18 gauge wire has an ampacity of 18 amps and would be ok for this application as well but due to the effects of age and exposure, most of us would feel better with a heavier wire.