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I '83 911 has an intermittent starting problem. When I turn the key, the starter will not turn. The battery is fine. I cleaned and tightented all electrical connections to and from the starter but still no joy.
I think there may be a bad connection from the starter to the ignition switch. The Bentley manual shows a solid yellow wire going from the starter to the ignition switch. The problem is, I cannot trace the yellow wire because it dissapears to the rear of the car into the dark abyss of the engine compartment. Does anyone know the route this wire takes? Does anyone have any further suggestions? Any insights and opinions are greatly appreciated. RICH |
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This is not an uncommon problem. My car has done it for years. It's the ignition switch itself that is bad.
A bad starter is easy to recognize because it will warn you just a few times before it dies completely. The yellow wire is part of the engine wiring harness. [This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 03-27-2001).] |
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RarlyL8,
Thanks for the advice. When you say the ignition switch, do you mean the part with the key, or the electrical module that plugs into the back? I replaced the whole assembly 6 months back but I guess it still could be the culprit. Rich |
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Actually there are two common problems, one that Rarly describes and the other which involves the starter when the car is hot (the starter is a heat sink for all that engine heat). The second is a very common problem. The switch may fail, in normal rotation, first through unlocking the wheel, ignition on, and then fail to physically turn into the start (spring loaded) position. You can test for a bad switch by bypassing the switch. When your car doesn't start, can it be push started? If it can, you know that the ignition pole on the switch is good. You may also check for voltage at the solenoid when someone rotates the ignition switch. Since you have to crawl under the car to test for this failure, cut a short piece of 12 gauge wire, about three inches long. Strip the insulation off the ends of the wire and bend it to form a "U'. Jump from the big terminal, battery lead to the wire going from the solenoid to the starte (bypassing the solenoid). If the starter spins, you may have a dirty/worn out solenoid, but your starter could use new brushes and probably needs to be cleaned up. Terrible job getting the allen head bolt out of the top mount. Take the starter and have it rebuilt and a new solenoid mounted -- total $100 or less. I know that you get pay from $270 - $345 for a new heavy duty starter, but why? You have a pretty strong one in there already. Don't expect any starter to live in that environment for 18 years and not need new brushes, a good cleaning, and a little bit of grease.
Switch is a bad job and very pricy. |
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I was refering to the key switch itself. Occasionally I will Turn the key through its contact points. The red engine lights come on, the ignition buzzes, then I complete the turn to start and - nothing. No sound of any kind. Turn the key back one notch and hit it again, she fires fight off.
My starter went out a year of so ago. This was different. The solenoid would click. That's how I knew it was the starter. Took it apart and saw the wear. Shipped it off as a core and got another. If the new one lasts another 20 years I'll be happy. By the way, that allen head bolt is 10mm female. Get a 10mm strait allen that is mounted in a socket for a ratchet wrench. Lay on your back and give the tranny a bear hug. A drop light and a dental mirror will help. Not too bad if you get the back end of the car the right hieght for your arm length. [This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 03-28-2001).] |
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You can get to the top 10 mm Allen nut better from the driver's side wheel well with the back up on jack stands and the wheel off ... over the top of the transaxle!
------------------ Warren Hall 1973 911S Targa |
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My symptoms for the starter motor (not the switch) were similar to Rarly's with the exception of the solenoid clicking. Mine did not click. The fact is there were two white SCs at the Glen with the exact same problem, I used the same little piece of red wire as the special tool to trouble shoot theirs as well as mine. Their solenoid did not click either. Both cars resorted to a more attractive female auxilliary starter motor.
![]() FWIW -- I started with the Rarly approach to the top 10mm allen, but evolved to the Warren approach. Alan 83SC |
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Thanks for the help!!!
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Evolved? Man I would hope you wouldn't have to do this enough to evolve! I did it once and with any luck I'm done there.
Hey Leland - remember the little story I told about my starter changing fiasco? My wife still laughs at me for that one! HA! |
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