Top ten sports cars of all time?

[TexasPete2720]

Porsche, porsche porsche. Any questions..........?

[DavidB911]

In no particular order

1. Porsche 911
2. McLaren F1
3. Ferrari 250 GTO
4. 65 Shelby Cobra (race version)
5. 69 Chevy Camaro
6. Chevy Corvette
7. Nissan Skyline (the new R35 will move it up on others list)
8. BMW M5
9. Aston Martin DB5 (the essential classic sports car)
10. Lamborghini Diablo

[YTNUKLR]

1. Porsche 911 ('67 911R or '73 RS)
2. McLaren F1
3. Ferrari F40
4. Ferrari 250 GTO
5. Ford GT40
6. Jaguar D-Type (or XK-SS)
7. Lamborghini Miura SV ('71)
8. Porsche Carrera Speedster (GS-GT preferably)
9. Porsche 993 Turbo
10. AC Shelby Cobra 289

No Mercedes or BMW on my list.

[YTNUKLR]

[911teo]

In no particular order....
Criteria: cars that change the perspective of what a sports car should/could be

1) McLaren F1
2) Ferrari F40
3) Porsche 73 RS
4) Ford GT
5) Lamborghini Miura SV
6) Mercedes 300SL
7) Porsche 959
8) Lotus Elise
9) Acura/Honda NSX
10) Audi Quattro

Explanation:
- The Mclaren F1 redefined fast. It took more than 15 years for a car to top its top speed. And after all this time it would hold its own against a Ferrari Enzo.
- The Ferrari F40 was the first fezza really inspired to the F1 cars. Twin turbo engine with carbon fiber as a wrapper... I would take one please.
- No explanation needed for the 73 RS, right?
- The Ford GT is the analog supercar. In an era when everything is electronic this old school superca can still deliver the vibe of a 1960s LeMans winner
- The 1st mid engined supercar. The car that changed it for ever. To think that at the same time Ferrari was producing the 275 GTB gives you an idea of how innovative the Miura was
- Straight from the Mille Miglia and Carrera Panamericana, 2 clever doors and voila', the 300SL is 1st supercar for the street.
- The 959 was (and still is) a technoligical feat... Porsche's showcase to the world. Unbeaten.
- Small, light, relatively practical (if you are shorter than 6 ft).
- Built by Honda, tuned by Senna. The 1st Japanese supercar that could shame a 911 and a Ferrari.
- From the rallies to the street. 1st car with permanent 4wd. Put Audi on the map.

[CMXI]

It´s not more complicated than this!

In random order.

Lamborghini Miura
Be true to the grandfather!

Ferrari F40
Non compromise, The last "real" supercar.

Audi Sport Quattro
Brute force works!

Ford GT40
American racing herritage!

Porsche 911
40 years old and still in action!

Bugatti EB110
Speed Speed Speed.

Detomaso Pantera
Looks like it´s going to eat you!

Lamborghoni Diablo
First time you saw it you dribbled!

Lamborghini Countach
Over the top and beond the moon!

Porsche 356
Sex personified!

Now i have to stop and whipe the dribble of my keyboard!

[GothingNC]

What about the Mercedes Gullwing?

[911teo]

That would be the Mercedes 300SL

[sscates]

Not to be biased or anything, but didn't the 930 get credited with starting the modern supercar era? I'm not biased or anything. Maybe it's time to sell the 930 and pick up a Mazda Mx-5?!

[GothingNC]

Mateo

Thanks for the clarification of the Mercedes 300SL - my brain was still in sleep mode...

I just found an old copy of European Car from the late 80's with an overhead shot of the 300SL on the front cover.

[Ole Petter]

The 10 best of what? Sportscars, or sportscars that made money in a way that made the Car Company "go forward" or "take leaps" in technology or production designs?

The McLaren F1 was a fab car, but the company lost lots of money for every car it produced... And what did it change? I would compare it with a race car like the Porsche 911 GT1, a car that beat it fair and square at Le Mans. The 911 GT1never got the "same cult following". But what has McLaren contributed to in sportscars terms since?

No the Miura, the Countach, the Murcielago, the 250 GTO, the 512 BB, the 288 GTO, the F40, the 360 Challenge Stradale, the Enzo, the 430, the 356, the 911 and the 911s that followed and still do (this car is totally unique as we well know), the GT2 and GT3, the Corvette... And what of the Mercedes SL...

McLaren F1 sold what, some 40 road cars? The F40 sold more than 1100! And they sold for much more than their list-price and still do...

The Sports Cars Companies is Lamborghini, Ferrari and Porsche in my book... In no particular order, that is!

[richde]

Originally Posted by Ole Petter

McLaren F1 sold what, some 40 road cars? The F40 sold more than 1100! And they sold for much more than their list-price and still do...

That fact should remove it from any poll, it was a kit car, it just happened to be that the company that made the kit car was also a F1 constructor.

It was an exercise in what you can do if money is no object.

[911teo]

Originally Posted by Ole Petter

The 10 best of what? Sportscars, or sportscars that made money in a way that made the Car Company "go forward" or "take leaps" in technology or production designs?

The McLaren F1 was a fab car, but the company lost lots of money for every car it produced... And what did it change? I would compare it with a race car like the Porsche 911 GT1, a car that beat it fair and square at Le Mans. The 911 GT1never got the "same cult following". But what has McLaren contributed to in sportscars terms since?

No the Miura, the Countach, the Murcielago, the 250 GTO, the 512 BB, the 288 GTO, the F40, the 360 Challenge Stradale, the Enzo, the 430, the 356, the 911 and the 911s that followed and still do (this car is totally unique as we well know), the GT2 and GT3, the Corvette... And what of the Mercedes SL...

McLaren F1 sold what, some 40 road cars? The F40 sold more than 1100! And they sold for much more than their list-price and still do...

The Sports Cars Companies is Lamborghini, Ferrari and Porsche in my book... In no particular order, that is!

Sorry but I don't follow....

Who cares what it cost McLaren.

But the F1 was the ultimate car. Brainchild of one of the true automotive geniuses, that Gordon Murray responsible for some of the most innovative F1 cars.

He started with a clean slate and set out to build the ultimate street car.

You need to buy a book about the F1 because it is fascinating. From the central driving position to grant perfect positioning of the pedals without interference from the wheel wells to the positions of the radiators etc.

And a F40 can be had for a little over $300k now.... u still need north of $1m for a McLaren F1....

[911teo]

Originally Posted by richde

That fact should remove it from any poll, it was a kit car, it just happened to be that the company that made the kit car was also a F1 constructor.

It was an exercise in what you can do if money is no object.

They made 100 McLaren F1 and 269 Porsche 959.....

I guess the 959 is a kit car too then

[richde]

Originally Posted by 911teo

They made 100 McLaren F1 and 269 Porsche 959.....

I guess the 959 is a kit car too then

Okay? I wouldn't have much argument with that either, it's a technological masterpiece of the time, but top 10 greatest street cars? Hmmmm....

Which reminds me, has an F1 ever been legally operated on US roads?

To be considered great, it would have to make a great impact right? How can a vehicle with ultra low production numbers make this great impact?

I assume that's why the Miata was included. Say whatever you want, but people like driving them and they're cheap.

[SCWDP911]

This is an interesting thread to me. Like others have already mentioned, the original question was not specific enough to really garner solid answers. I will add this to the confusion: the need to distinguish between sports car and SUPER car. I think some people used to call, what many refer to as super cars, exotic cars in the past. I would call many of the later Ferrari's, Lambo's, McLaren's, Veyron's, Aston Martin's etc, etc as Supercars. I would even classify the 959 as a supercar. For me, I make the distinction between sports car and super car this way: a super car is beyond the reach of most driving enthusiasts.

Also, we need to decide whether or not to include the early (50-60-70's) Vette's. Some I think, would classify them as muscle cars, but I think they should stay in the sports car realm myself. That said, I think the '67 427 Vette HAS to be on the list.

For the record, I kind of think the official sports car era is gone. Why? I think a true sports car, in my mind anyway, should not be so overcomplicated that you have to have a pit crew to work on it and keep it running. I think the sports car era ended, interestingly enough, when the last 993 rolled of the assembly line. Or possibly when the last 97 Mazda Miata rolled off it's line. The 98 Miatas saw major changes in their mechanicals. I would say it ended at one of these two points in automotive history, but I am honestly not sure when the last 993 was built. I personally think everything past that point, would have to be considered a GT or supercar class.

My $0.02

[911teo]

Originally Posted by richde

Which reminds me, has an F1 ever been legally operated on US roads?

To be considered great, it would have to make a great impact right? How can a vehicle with ultra low production numbers make this great impact?

I assume that's why the Miata was included. Say whatever you want, but people like driving them and they're cheap.

Whether or not a car was imported in the US should not be one of the criteria to judge it as a sports car.

And you dont need to produce millions of cars for them to have an impact.

You just need to show people the way.

Anyway I don't want to argue with you about wether or not the McLaren F1 can be on a top 10 list.

To each his own... I guess the Lamborghini Diablo (Countach, Murcielago, 288GTO, F50, F360, F430) had a bigger impact on the sports car world

PS
The Miata is a wonderful car. I have never put it down. I put the Lotus Elise in my list... similar concept to the Miata... but just on a different level...

[Ole Petter]

Hi, hi!
I just couldn't help it... The Big Mac (F1) was never of any real interest to me. This is because in the F1 I am a Tifosi (Ferrari F1 supporter) at heart! And for McLaren to grab this (F1) as their name for a Supercar was hard for me to swallow. For me Ferrari is F1. That is the sole competitor that has been there from the start...
The Big Mac was a no-compromise build, but the timing was all wrong (the economics struggled), the builing-cost was much too high (they had to bring in help to reduce the costs building the car) and they had no "traditions" with selling road-cars. In fact the numbers sold as road-cars is nowhere near 100! The real number is something fortyish. But a number was constructed as race-cars. And they were very fast and won just about everything they entered. BUT they had to run BIG WINGS to improve road-holding and that took away much of the straight-line speed. Remember these cars was very tricky on the limit. It was by no means like a Bugatti Veyron that has the stability of a train. Not that I fancy that car either!
Point is that the Ferrari F40 outsold it in BIG numbers, and that Ferrari probably could have sold many, many more. But traditionally they build in "small" series.
Ferrari as opposed to McLaren han NO TROUBLE selling 1100 F40 at all. In fact you had to pay BIG money to make a costumer sell it on to you. Ferrari is a traditionalist sportscar company, like Porsche. McLaren is a very, very good F1 constructor, but their taking on the SuperCar scene ended with a blooded knee. They may have brought a wonderful, fabulous SuperCar to the scene, but it cost them blood. They thought they could have things their way, but it ended in tears. It took Mercedes Benz with their financial power to make them step forward with the McLaren Mercedes SLR...
AND the Porsche 911 GT1 beat it on the track, so the Big Mac was not unbeatable. Of course the GT1 wasn't built in numbers, but this just proved the point.
Building the Superest Car dosn't guarantee economic success that can make way for future glory. Here you have to look at Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini! In that light the F40 is a bigger success than any of the contemporary cars. At least in my book, even if it is covered in Rosso Corsa!!!

What I in essence mean, is that the F! was/is still a fabulous car, but at the time a devastating blow to McLaren and their plans of beeing a leading constructor of road-cars.

Beating the establishment goes deeper than just building one great car...

[RWebb]

No one has listed any of the early sports cars.

[RWebb]

I agree that you first have to define sports car before you can figure out which are the top 10! Besides the "super car" problem noted above, there is the difference between "sports car" and "GT car" and also "Sports sedan" - note how one guy snuck in a Quattro...

For the statistically minded, here is an article - he also includes an older deterministic formula froma Belgian Grand Prix driver.

http://www.casact.org/library/astin/vol18no2/175.pdf

The advantage of the multi-variate statistical analysis is that the "eigenvectors are orthogonal" - I'll bet that not more than 3 people on this list know what that means...

Have Fun!