I forgot to mention that I went and had the battery tested. Wasn't sure if it took a beating yesterday when we were trying to get the car started. It checked out ok.

I just measured the voltage on it and it was at 12.2 which means that it is 50% charged (I think).

Last night I charged the battery but not sure if it made it to 100%. Is it possible that the alternator will eventually charge it up after I drive it some more? I only put about 32 miles on it today.

Or, is this not possible since the voltage on the battery drops when the car is running.

It seems like the alternator is trying to charge the battery since the light goes off at higher RPMs.

I am with you I dont think it is charging until it gets in the higher RPM and not really doing it unless it comes up to 14.

There is a number of threads on separating the alternator and fan, I forget but there is some tricks, its really common.

I guess I would just keep the battery charged and get the motor broken in and deal with the alternator later???

Craig,
While I'd like to make the joke that what sounds like crap are those headers.... ;) I know you're used to their sound.

I just moved my LM-1 up the DC with me a few weeks ago, otherwise I would have said to get it from my storage place with Kevin and check your AFRs. I could always mail it to you to use if there isn't one handy, but a freshly rebuilt CIS motor.... you'd be crazy not to tune the AFRs.

Btw, I worked on a B5 Audi S4 for the first time ever yesterday... I would like to find the man who designed it (clearly was not german), shoot him, kill him, the shoot him a few more times. I generally disagree with shops who force people to drop mtors to do any work on their car... I never charged a customer to drop a 944 motor to do a timing belt, I've never seen why you needed to, but I would never agree to do anything on that Audi again without the first step being to drop the motor so you have room to work on anything in the car.

To celebrat my hatred of the car I'll be working on it again next weekend (hey money's money), at least it's just a track tech, and brakes... easy stuff.

I am going to buy SSIs but they are on global back order. Got the scoop from Pelican today.

In the meantime I am replacing all of the exhaust studs with OEM, using new gaskets, and then wrapping the headers with heat wrap. That should get me through until November when the SSIs are available.

I don't think it sounds like crap in the absence of exhaust leaks. In fact, some of the bursch headers sound really fantastic with various mufflers. The quality blows though and they sit too close to the valve covers.

My BIGGER concern is that the headers are BAD for the new engine. Is it ok to continue to run them in the interim?

I can definitely see the concern since you had valve issues in the old motor. Lol, I had a bursch header and muffler on my 912, btw.

I think you'd be fine until november, especially using good oil and not running lean. They're not my favorite setup, but I'm not sure i'd really argue they're "motor killers"

I do swear though, the best 911 exhaust I've ever heard in my life, for a street car was in Charlies Clark's 30k original mile 71T that he put a 3.2 in and he installed a GHL header/muffler kit. I thought it was the greatest thing I'd ever heard in my life... lol, he got me to sell the muffler on ebay for him because he thought it was too loud.

I yanked those suckers off tonight. If I find some SSIs, the Bursch will be used for target practice.

From the residue on the heads it looks like there were 3 or 4 major leaks.

Check the flanges with a striaght edge for flat and square. File flat and bolt them back on.

I think there is a set of SSIs on Ebay? may have been a few weeks ago...

what muffler are you going to run with the SSIs? You'll probably need to order a set of straps, as well.

Prolly use same muffler ... dynomax turbo. I can swap that out later.

I did find a set of SSIs. Hopefully it will work out. In touch with the guy right now and he is in the Atlanta area.

The unfortunate thing is that one of the time serts came out of the head - still bound to the exhaust stud. 11 of 12 studs came out fine. All had anti-seize on em.

This kinda throws a wrench in things too. EBS is sending me a kit and an oversized time sert in the event that the smaller one won't fit.

hmmmmm.... I'm not 100% sure that muffler is going to work... in fact, I would not recommend using that muffler at all unless you want to throw away a set of SSIs. I can almost gaurantee you that if you bolt that to your SSIs, you're going to crack them. You need a "factory" style muffler, even if it's just like a Dansk (which sounds good, imho), and straps to hold it in place.

Why would it crack them and not the Bursch headers?

just different designs. Granted this is mainly on track cars, but I've seen SSIs crack in two places. Where the individual exhast pipes meet, and at the flanges to the muffler when you have a muffler installed incorrectly (not supported), or that's moving around too much.

I'm not sure if that muffler is supported by anything but if you want to run it, I'd find a way to somehow support it, strap it down or somthing, and make sure that wherever it sits it's not putting pressure on the SSIs in one direction or another.

Basically you're just working with fine metal, and it'll crack if stressed too much. Most people run Monte mufflers with SSIs for the best HP/sound combination, i'd just want to run an OEM style muffler if it was me.

FINE!

I ordered a Dansk muffler ... dual in, 1 out.

lol, for the record, I didn't TELL you to buy it today, but you'll be happy in the end trust me. Dansk makes some Decent sounding stuff too.

Btw, have you gotten a chance to get it tuned any better? I'm still imagining that once you get everythign sorted out you should be very happy with the new motor, especially with the power.

I drove it 30+ miles on Sunday and was LOVING it. Real kick in the pants at 3k RPM and beyond. I only ran it up to 5K RPM at about 3/4 throttle too. Can't wait to open it up!

I hit the Daniel Island bridge (seemed risky considering I built the engine :D) and let it coast down hill from about 80 mph to 30 mph while keeping it in 4th gear. Did that twice.

Also kept moving the RPMs around in all of the gears - mostly 2nd through 4th.

But now that the exhaust is off I can't drive it. Also need to figure out the charging issue. Last night when I got home the battery was at 12.48. Started at 13.7 and has dropped over the course of 2 days - not connected to car.

Again, I really think it is the battery. Last night I started it on a trickle charge. Going to let it get some juice for a couple of days and then start my measurements again. If it drops, there will be no doubt in my mind that the battery is to blam. I can get it replaced for free b/c it is under warranty.

Do you know anyone in Charleston that can bench test an alternator? No one seems to be able to do it b/c of the size and nature of the alternator.

that's probably a good idea... I'm not a huge fan of the break it in like you stole it philosophy. I'm mean don't baby it in, but don't kill it. I have a different break in for NA vs. Turbo too.

:( I wouldn' think the size of the alternator matters to bench test it. Who said they couldn't? Regardless of what anyone says, 911s have ****ty charging systems they always have, you generally see lower voltage on a 911 battery than any other i've ever seen in a car. If your alternator is charging, the alternator is working. Worst case it might need a set of brushes, those tend to go and replacing them usually solves what replacing an alternator solves, of course it's twice as much work. I don't think I've ever seen a faulty alternator actually charge a battery a noticeable amount though.

If I recall, you had a fairly cheap battery in the car, load testing the battery before anything else might be a good idea. Wouldn't hurt at all to throw in an interstate or Optima red-top if the battery isn't perfect.

and check the battery connections, remember when the negative terminal vibrated off on the way to Savannah. Make sure the ground and positive wires are secured to the battery and car, and the wiring in the clamps is good, and the terminals are clean, etc... i like to use terminal protector too.

wastin time.. check your PMs.

Dude ... it is a Red Top Optima ... from May of 07.

The alternator has no way to be tied down in most machines. Plus, in order to get it to spin you need the fan on it so as to create the pulley.

you could always throw it in Kevin's car if he doesn't mind and see what happens, that'd be pretty definitive.

Subscribed. Great Thread! Thanks MCA.

Mike

subscribed

Carolina Auto Electric on Meeting street should be able to test the alt. You can hook up a multimeter to any hot wire in the car while it is running and that should give you the voltage on the alt, I usually pick up the hot wire off of the light switch behind the dash. That is how I determined that my alt was overcharging. Sounds like you have a battery problem, same issue on one of my cars with a 8 month old battery. Exchanged it under warranty.

Just saw this thread last night, good job!!!!

Tim

Thanks Tim!

I called Allied Alternator today up in North Charleston. The guy knew exactly what I was talking about ... he asked "Is that the alternator with the fan on it?"

He told me that they would try to fashion some sort of pulley and some way to hold the alternator in place. We shall see.

Last night I pulled the trickle charge off of the battery. It is now holding at 12.7 volts.

So, if the battery was only 50% charged when I had it running in the car, would the alternator light come on as a result? I am still cloudy on how the charging system works.

again... 911 charging system... hard to compare to other cars. I'd never expect to see the same voltage in a 911 as I would in a Honda.

No, the alt light will not come on due to a weak battery, or I should say, in theory, it should not come on. I have had many weak/defective batteries, and never had an alt light come on as a result, in any of my 911's, or any other car that I've owned. The only time the alt ligght should come on is if it is not supplying enough voltage to operate the elect system and/or provide sufficient charge to the battery. It will stay on after you turn the car off if there is a bad diode in the alt.

Charge
 

Not true. Same theory in all the cars that I've owned and worked on. Alt's charge at approx 14 volts, and battery's run at approx 12.5. A 911 is no different.

Hey tim, what's up? Haven't seen you in a while. I disagree though... 911s are singularly hard on charging systems. From the relays required for engine starting to the amounts of electronics draining the battery even when the car is off.

911s are unique in that they generally start with lower voltages than other cars, yet are ultimately incapable of starting at an equivalent voltage that another car might still start at. I've never seen a 911 built prior to '98 that would jump back up to a normal voltage after starting unless that was the day you installed a new battery and alternator.

My point wasn't that a dead battery isn't a dead battery, or that an alternator is really charging even if the battery voltage never goes up, but in virtually every 911 I've ever worked on I've seen a slightly lower voltage than normal while charging, I generally don't worry about it either.

911s are harder on their charging systems than almost any other car you will ever work on, it doesn't mean the system is any different, nor was that my claim, just that you will occaisionally see different values than you would in another car and that isn't necessarily a reason to freak out.

wastintime,
you must be working on those euro 911's with their strange voltage.
i just started my 77s, cold, and did not touch the gas at all. the start volts dropped to 10.6 and then settled at 14.4. i dont know what else could be more normal or perfect, and i never even got in the car. now the vlolts may drop back down some after the battery recovers from the start, but even hondas do that.

now there have been times i have started it and the alt light was on, but just until i blipped the gas, but it never came back on.

if the charge voltage never goes (above 12v), the alt is not charging, period.

as far as 911's being hard on an electrical system due to relays, when was the last time you counted the relays in a range rover? the bad thing with porsche and electrical systems are those crappy fuses they use and that they get hot.

and what electronics are draining the battery? i have gone a month or more and never had a dead battery.

by the way, i use to work at carolina auto electric, although it has been 15 years, best place in town! the dealers use to send us their cars they could not fix!

I called them today. Gonna run by there tomorrow and see what they can do. When talked to the guy on the phone he didn't seem to know much about the 911alternators. The whole fan / pulley thing.

We shall see!

Carolina Auto Electric saved the day. They tested it on the spot and confirmed that it is in great condition.

Now that I know it works, I will install it and see what happens.

I will test the one that is currently in the car. If it is bad, I may as well have it rebuilt since these alternators are getting harder and harder to find.

Thanks T77911S and Tim for the tip on using Carolina Auto Electric.

great news !!
Let us know how this impacts the lights... hopefully they wont glow...
Bob

Me too ... I hope this solves the problem.

I can't test it out until the rest of my exhuast system arrives and I get it installed. SSIs are coming in tomorrow, muffler / gaskets / clamps coming early next week, and the time-sert kit coming early next week.

I just wanted to say thanks to Gert vanRooyen (Gertvr) for selling me his SSIs.

He really saved my butt b/c new SSIs are on back order until early November. I paid him on Wednesday and received them on Friday. All nicely packed ... even got a full roll of paper towels in the box.

So, thanks Gert!

Sweet,
I know it's more money you didn't want to "blow" right away, but you're going to love the sound once everything arrives, and at least you're not worried about anything cracking or your valves cooking.

Got muffler on this morning. It is a tight fit and I may need to cut part of my bumper as the polished muffer tip is slightly touching the back/inside part of the bumper.

I drove to work and it was a sweet sound and nice ride. Lots of smoke though (from underside of engine). Could be that gasket sealant I used with the muffler and header gaskets. Maybe it is just burning away - supposed to be good up to 700F. Guess the exhaust gets hotter than that? Gert (the guy who sold me the SSIs) suggested using the sealant as extra precaution. Helped keep them in place while installing too.

Anyhow, the car was running pretty hot. Granted it was prolly 90-100F on the highway this morning but still ... shouldn't get that hot with a "new" engine, elephant oil lines, and an external fender cooler (no fan though).

Towards the end of my drive to work the temp was near the upper white mark. I am starting to think that my gauge is off since both temp sensors seem to give the same readings.

What else could it be? External t-stat not opening all of the way?

Ignition timing is correct. If anything I may be running slightly rich but I have not checked yet.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219847105.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219847116.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219847129.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219847144.jpg

Re muffler:
Don't let the muffler just hang on the HE-flanges, support it with straps as intended to prevent the flanges from cracking.
Instead of factory straps, I use 6-7 inch SS hose clamps, 2 per side, 4 all together.
I recommend you use the good copper gaskets from PP between the flanges.
The flanges on the muffler should fit square onto the HE-flanges without sealant.
I use large channel-lock pliers to align the pipes for a straight flow before tightening the bolts on the flanges.

Recheck the nuts that hold the HE to the heads after some time, they tend to come loose.

Muffler tip touching the bumper:
After installing holding straps for the muffler, I was able to bend the tip down by using heat, inserting a tight-fitting metal pipe into the tip and pressing down hard.
If that doesn't work, consider having the tip re-welded on the muffler body instead of cutting the bumper.

As for overheating.
Are both lines going to the front cooler getting hot?
Meaning: Is the oil circulating thru the front cooler?

Ya, I have the straps but didn't have time to install them this morning. The muffler bracket notches will suffice until this weekend. It ain't going anywhere cause it is tight!

Oil lines getting hot. It could be a volume issue though if enough oil is not flowing due to a partially opened t-stat.

Thanks for the tips on the muffler. This is a game of millimeters for sure. What did you use as your heat source prior to bending?

I wouldn't worry about the smoke. That's pretty normal with new exhaust pieces. You might want to retighten things once it cools down too. I didn't see it in the pics, but you did put the straps on the muffler right?

I'm confused on the temps... was it hot by 100f? the temps you saw on the highway sound right, and without a fan it's not too hard to get a 911 to overheat in traffic, getting close to 270 doesn't sound impossible... running a little rich is always safer though.

It was probably running at 230-240 on the highway. A needle's width from the upper white mark. No traffic either.

Kevin and I are going to swap gauges this weekend to elminate a faulty gauge.

I have straps but didn't have time to put them on this morning. I will do so this weekend.