How to identify odometer rollbacks/disengagements?

[Plecostomus]

I am looking at an SC that is being sold with 36k miles and I wonder if its odo has been tampered with. Its only been driven 200 miles in the past 4 years!. Driver's seat doesn't look too worn. Are there other indicators that might reflect that there was some naughty doings in this area? Thanks if you can suggest something!

Kurt

[Rot 911]

If the owner will let you, the easiest thing to do is pull the speedometer gauge out and look to see if the bezel ring has been pryed up. If so, at least you know someone was doing something insided the gauge. Other than that look at the rubber on the pedals for excessive wear overall worn appearance, etc.

[the]

There are so many wear areas that you really can't even count them all. Someone with experience can take them all in and give you an idea as to the mileage.

There are several common areas, though. Seats, of course. The shift knob on an SC should have a fairly rough finish on it, if it is smoothed out the mileage is suspect (you'd need to know what a new SC shift knob should look like). The pedal area gives a lot of clues, although the rubber clutch and brake pads are like $4 each and can easily be changed. General condition of the suspension, undercarriage and engine bottom, build up of road debris in the rocker and valance areas. The overall cleanliness of the car and the engine, and the condition of the cad plating on the hardware. Condition of the exhaust - that's a good clue. Are the factory paint marks still in place on the nuts and bolts? They should be.

You can usually easily pull out the speedo and check the sealing ring to see if it has been opened. (Although of course it is easy to just put a different one in). I think they may also be date stamped.

Of course, records are also somewhat helpful. They aren't dispositive, because they don't really do much if the person is disconnecting the speedo and driving the car for stretches at a time, but they can be helpful. If the car is being sold with little or no records, I'd be ultra suspicious of the mileage claim.

If you post a bunch of pics of the car, particularly the engine, undercarriage, pedal area, seats, etc., I'm sure we can give you an idea. If I saw the car in person, my guess is I could tell you with 100% certainty if the miles were understated.

I have a couple of cars that are currently in the low to mid 30s in miles, including an 80s 911. I can tell you, it looks like a brand new car in just about every respect. The seats look new. The exhaust looks practically new. All the cad plating is like new. The factory paint marks on the various nuts and bolts are still intact.

200 miles in 4 years is highly suspect. 200 miles is not even one tank of gas. The fuel in the tank would be very, very old.

[DonMo]

The speedo is not a for sure since the internal plastic gear routinely breaks on a 20+ year car. So if the seal ring shows marks, it might be from a repaired speedometer. It is an age thing on the gear, not mileage.

[the]

One other thing - what year is the car? If its an 80, 81 or 82 (maybe even an 83, not sure about that one), then it should have an 85 mph speedo (assuming it is a US version car). If it doesn't, then the speedo has been replaced at some time, which of course raises odo issues.

[BReyes]

Does it "looks like a brand new car in just about every respect. The seats look new. The exhaust looks practically new. All the cad plating is like new. The factory paint marks on the various nuts and bolts are still intact."

That sums it up. Next question would be-is someone going to do a PPI? Do you have pics?

Then you can go to dealer's stamps, and fluid changes.

It will not be long before you know if you have something special there.

Goodluck

[johnj123]

Service Records!!! When I was looking for my 911SC the service records can help with tracking the true miles. Detailed set of records is a good indicator. Also, I would take the car to Porsche and have them remove the speedo meter and see if the gears have been replaced. 200 miles in four years?

[Diamond911]

As stated above, service records.

Also, if you are able to trace the previous owners you can have a chat with them.

I have just purchased an '87 (MY '88) and was able to track down all 4 previous owners from new. I ask them a whole heap of pre-prepared questions and these included how many years they owned the car, was the car garaged during their ownership, approximately how many kilometers did they put on the car during their ownership, and what kind of driving did they do (ie daily driver short distance, weekend driving long distance etc..).

Then I added up all the years that they owned it which added up to 21 and confirmed the age of the car and that I had all 4 owners. I added up the estimated km's that each owner drove and it added up pretty close to the current ODO reading.

The car also had FSH with 13 stamps so I was pretty confident with my due diligence check with the owners that it was all above board. Not to mention that the interior of the car was in mint condition.

[tcar]

YOu have to look at the condition of the car (or have an experienced mech do a PPI)

Records...

It's very quick (5 minutes) and easy to swap speedos for one w/ lower mileage.

[dshepp806]

You can't really verify the items you mentioned (tamper). Although you can do some logical math with other data points to attempt to get close.

....as graciously suggested by several Pelicanites (above),......

....2 cents.....

Best,

[Plecostomus]

Thanks guys. Sorry for my delayed response, for I have been all over the place. I will get on the records and # of owners right away. I guess it goes without saying that I need to see the car! I appreciate everyone's replies very much.

Regards

Kurt

[Plecostomus]

I just spoke with the owner. He said two other guys owned the car and he has the records only from 1997. I never thought finding a nice Porsche would be such a mind-numbing pain in the ass!

[zotman72]

Check the front brake rotors. At original 36K miles, with street driving and normal pads, there should be just a small ridge on the edge of the rotors. Large outer ridge maybe a cause for suspect on mileage or past driver behavior. Check the pad thickness too. HTH and YMMV.

[Plecostomus]

Thanks Bill! HTH and YMMV??

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

"Hope that helps" and "your mileage may vary."