Wierd VIN problem - help?

[tcar]

Looked at an 82 SC targa today...

Am really puzzled by the VIN numbers.

The VIN numbers on the plaque on the windshield pillar and the sticker on the door jamb are the same:

WP0EA0910CSXXXXXX

I looked at the 'Red Book' and it shows that the ninth digit should be a 'C' instead of a 0 (zero). (...091CCS...). It's definitely a 0 (zero) on the plaque and the sticker.

The BIG PUZZLE, though is that on the stamped VIN in the trunk, the VIN is:

WP0ZZZ91ZCSXXXXXX

(ALL THE X'S are identical in both numbers)

What in the world is going on? Why a ROW VIN stamped in the trunk with all other numbers different USA system?

Also, it has a sticker on the engine apron on the left side next to the tire pressure sticker with the first VIN (not ROW) - never seen this

Is this a grey market car? The door jamb sticker looks genuine - mfg date showing of,
03-82.

The engine type is 930/16, which is a USA type, not ROW (according to the Red Book).

Please help. Thank you for any help you can give me.

Sorry this is so long, didn't want to leave anything out.

[equality72521]

Looks like the body was originally going to be a Japan car but ended up being a US car instead.

[tcar]

Well, it is a Left hand drive car, not right hand... FWIW

Just think it's really bizarre.

[equality72521]

Hmmm, just realized. WP0ZZZ91ZCSXXXXXX should be a Japan coupe not a Targa.

[Jack Olsen]

Um, unless I'm missing something, there's nothing weird here at all.

The ZZZ and the additional check digit (the 9th digit) are placeholders that are changed when a chassis is finally designated for delivery in a particular country (one that isn't in the ROW group, that is) on the production line. As I understand it, all 1980-and-later 911s have the combination of 'provisional' generic/ROW ZZZ stampings and then the 'final' VIN in the locations you mention.

So the ZZZ changes to the USA (EA0) code when the car is designated for US/Canada delivery. And the 9th digit has to change when the letters in the VIN are changed. If you're interested, you can see how to calculate the 9th digit here. To translate Porsche 911 VINs up to 1990, check this page

[equality72521]

Originally Posted by Jack Olsen

Um, unless I'm missing something, there's nothing weird here at all.

The ZZZ and the additional check digit are placeholders that are changed when a chassis is designated for delivery in a particular country (one that isn't in the ROW group, that is). As I understand it, all 1980-and-later cars have the combination of generic ZZZ stampings and then the final VIN in the locations you mention.

Damn, that's right. I completely forgot that.

[tcar]

OK, that helps.

The Carfax was OK on the car, so I was wondering what was going on.

So they would stamp the ZZZ number on the chassis until they knew where it was going?

I've never seen this, the chassis stamp has always been the same as the VIN.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by tcar

OK, that helps.

The Carfax was OK on the car, so I was wondering what was going on.

So they would stamp the ZZZ number on the chassis until they knew where it was going?

I've never seen this, the chassis stamp has always been the same as the VIN.

As Jack said, all bodies were stamped with the ZZZ. It's later in the assembly line, that the rest of the VIN #'s were applied, based on where they were going. Nothing wrong. My '84 is the same way.

[tcar]

Jack Olsen, I think the 18 digit VINs started in 81 with a 'B' in the 10th digit.

My 80 still has the old short VIN.

[Jack Olsen]

Originally Posted by tcar

I've never seen this, the chassis stamp has always been the same as the VIN.

It changed in 1981. The chassis stamping and the plates will match for 911s made before that. And of course, it will also match for ROW cars that retain the ZZZ on their VIN plates.

Originally Posted by tcar

Jack Olsen, I think the 18 digit VINs started in 81 with a 'B' in the 10th digit.

My 80 still has the old short VIN.

Yeah, I was mistaken about the year of implementation. It was 1981, not 1980.

I've never heard of an 18-digit VIN. I think they've been 17 digits/characters since 1981. Before that, there wasn't an industry-wide standard for creating the numbers. But then, I've also heard that the 17-digit numbers were going to all be used up pretty soon, so maybe that's changed.

[tcar]

Oops. Typo. Meant 17 digit...

[tcar]

So, the other question...

Is there an error in the famed Red Book?

I looked at the Red Book and it shows that the ninth digit should be a 'C' instead of a 0 (zero). (...091CCS...instead of 0910CS).

It's definitely a 0 (zero) on the plaque and the door jamb sticker. Carfax also says it's correct with a '0'and not a 'C'.

Is the Red Book in error?

[1982911SCTarga]

You might want to re-check "The Red Book" information. I've used it and have found it to be very reliable regarding VIN numbers and how they're presented. The ninth digit is a placeholder. The 10th digit is the model year, "C" in your case, which means 1982.

While you're checking, look at the engine serial number. It's third digit should be a "C" for 1982 production as well.

More vehicle identifcation information here.

"C" and "D" production 911s are the best of the SCs, but, hey, I'm biased.

Brian

[tonythetarga]

WP0EA0910CSXXXXXX

according to Bruce Anderson's book:
WPO= World Producer code
EAO(not zero but letter O) = VDS code
91 = 911
0 = Test digit
C = 1982
S = Stuttgart
1 = 1 (last 1 for 911)
x = body and engine code. ie: 2 = USA 911 SC
xxxx = sequential serial number

Total is 17 digits.

[tcar]

That's what I'm wondering is an error.


The Red Book shows the 9th digit should be a C, not a 0.

[equality72521]

Originally Posted by tcar

That's what I'm wondering is an error.


The Red Book shows the 9th digit should be a C, not a 0.

Yep, it does. Hmmm.