future value of the 964?

Hello all (again). In my quest to find the right 964 for my wife and myself, I wonder how there values are gonna hold? I have been shaking my crystal ball and it doesn't seem to work

I just wonder if this is a good time or not to spend this kind of money.

What are your thoughts and predictions?

Thanks to everyone on this great list.....

Chris

Well now that I bought one everyone is going to want to follow in my footsteps. This will increase demand and drive up prices, so now is the time to buy. I'm kind of the "Allan Greenspan" of the automotive world.

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Tyson Schmidt
72 911 Cabriolet
92 C-2 Cabriolet

What do you mean "hold"?
Take just about any mass produced car that is currently 7-10 years old, and its still depreciating. Not as quickly as it did when it was newer, but it is still on the downside of its deprciation curve.
The 911 is no exception, IMO.
The 964 is especially no expection, being sandwiched between what many (rightfully or wrongfully) consider the "last of the classic line" (89 911 Carrera), and what many consider the "overall best of the line" (993).
As the price of 993s continue to fall, they will push the 964 even further. I know people that have 964s and really like them, but just about all of them would buy a 993 is they weren't still so expensive. The 964 of course will always have their fans, but I think of all the 911s over the last 20 years, they have the smallest following, and I don't think that will change significantly with time. Even though a 94 964 cost more than a similarly equipped 95 993, the 993 as a used car will always be worth significantly more.

I think their prices will decline until the very low $20s, where they will more or less stabilize. Just a guess.

Chris,

I have a 94 964 and know, full well, that I paid a dear price for it. There were others available for less (albeit 92's or 93's. . .94's seem fewer and further between)but be careful to buy the right car and not the right price tag. I know that I paid about $4-5K more than I should have but I am very happy that I bought the exact car, in the exact condition that I wanted.

If you're buying this, or any modern car as an investment, grab your wallet and RUN. You'd do better investing in fresh produce! Buy the RIGHT car, first and foremost. Certainly negotiate your best deal, but if you end up buying a lesser car, you'll end up investing waaaay more than the price difference anyway.

I once got a "good deal" on a Triumph TR-6. I loved the car but spent way more than it was worth getting it to where I wanted it. I could have easily bought a pristine example for far less than I ended up spending.

Bottom line. . .get the car you know you want. You won't be disappointed.

One comment regarding the 964. I went for the latest model possible. In my opinion, the 964 is the "last-of-the-line" moreso than the 89. Still has the 911 aesthetics (unlike the 993. . .just look at the headlight towers), with superior performance, reliability, handling, and overall refinement than it's predecessors. And, unlike the 993, it's still easy to work on.

Just my .964 cents worth,

Mike 94 C2 cab

Let me echo mike's sentiments. While made of many new parts, (some greatly improved), the 964 to me, represents the last of the classic look. While the 993's could be considered "streamlined" I consider the nose to resemble a Ford Taurus and so many other similar designs. It simply lost the unique look that even the little kids would recognize. My 964 is every bit the 911 ever was with more strength and more amenities and..the pedals are in the same place as my old '69...and '79...and '84.
Given the whisper campaign to discredit the 964 for oil leaks and flywheel problems, I'd venture that the car could be a bargain waiting.

All used cars depreciate some faster than others I think we are fortunate because I dont think the bottom will ever fall out in the 911 family of cars, unlike the 928's and 944's which can be had really cheap nowadays. Look at the prices of the SC's they have been pretty stable for quite some time. If the car is clean and maintained it wont depreciate like say an american car......just my .02c worth.

There's no doubt that the 964 will continue to depreciate. Over time, I think it's value will get sandwiched tightly between the Carrera 3.2 and 993, so that an avg 964 will always be worth more than an avg 3.2, but an excellent 3.2 could be worth more than a decent 964. I think we're already starting to see some of that when looking at '89 3.2 prices vs. 90 C2 prices.

That being said, I think the 964 will depreciate at a slower rate compared to a comparable new car of the same cost. For example, a 964 purchased for $30K today may be worth at least $20-$25K in three years. A $30K new car will be worth about $15-19K in three years. I realize I'm making some pretty heavy generalizations to come up with these numbers, but I think the point is still valid.

Obviously, any 911 will hold its value better if it's a weekend only car (less mileage). If that's your intended use, why not consider a Carrera 3.2? Less expensive and tremendous cars. I bought a 92 C2 for my own specific reasons, but I would have been willing to go back as far as '84 if I only wanted a weekend car.

Drew
92 C2

Originally posted by Mike Feinstein:
Chris,
If you're buying this, or any modern car as an investment, grab your wallet and RUN. You'd do better investing in fresh produce!

LOL! i never heard that one, but it's funny! the one thing i would add is that if you are concerned about the "future value" of your car, chances are you are going to end up babying it. you are never going to run it like it was meant to be driven because you will be afraid of "breaking it, and then when it is repaired it won't be 100% original". i was originally like this with our first Porsche, but owning a "trailer queen" gets really boring, especially when you see all your friends doing 4-wheel drifts, and running their cars on the race track.

i spent Friday and Saturday talking with the entrants in this year's Michelin One Lap of America. one of the coolest guys was a gentleman in a meavily modified 1989 Honda Civic Si who told me how he was invited to a PCA autocross a few years back. it was one of those "multi-marque" autocrosses. he said it was just sad... his Honda ended up getting 3rd place overall because more than 90% of the Porsche owners were afraid to drive their cars like they were meant to be driven. most of the entrants were a bunch of doctors and lawyers that got the car as a status symbol, and never put that "investment" to good use. he said that of all the people there, only 2 Porsche drivers were really hustling their cars around and maximixing their potential. all the rest of the guys were afraid to take the cars over 3000 rpm, and out of 2nd gear.

if you want to get a 964, then get the nicest one you can find. if you intend on having fun in the car, then don't worry about the little details. if you want to make sure that you get your investment back... sell it within 24 hours of buying it. if you wait any longer then it will turn into a large waste of time and money.

good luck!

obin

Originally posted by rcwaldo:
Hello all (again). In my quest to find the right 964 for my wife and myself, I wonder how there values are gonna hold? I have been shaking my crystal ball and it doesn't seem to work

I just wonder if this is a good time or not to spend this kind of money.

What are your thoughts and predictions?

Thanks to everyone on this great list.....

Chris

Did you put your wifes name first on purpose? Is the car mostly for her?

I think that the prices on 964's have stabilized. You will do fine buying one now.

Buy it for yourself though, it is awfully annoying when your wife always nags for a turn to drive. Especially when the driving season is so short.

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Daryl 91C2 Targa

In the UK, the prices have dropped for the 964 putting them on par or lower than late 3.2 Carreras. I still think the 964 is a good car but definately not the last of the line as I beleive it was made with 80% new parts!?.
Correct me if I am wrong!.
But alot of those parts were improvements.
That is why I plan to by a cheap one when I return to the UK and seriously tune it up!.
Enjoy the car you have and forget about resale unless you intend to sell it within 2-3 yrs!.
rgds Ben

I didnt see where anyone mentioned rarity so far in this post, especially with the C4. It seems that there were not that many sold, and it seems that there are even less good ones remaining. Is this true? I have a feeling that the 964 C4's will be quite valuable collector cars in about 10 or 15 years, even more so if the model has certain color or interiors.

I beg to differ on the C4's. Have you ever driven one? Most feel to agree that it made the car drive like a front drive car. Not until the 993 C4 did they get the feel right. Read "Porsche Story" by Paul Frere' to get a good understanding about the transition from 3.2 to 993. Porsche was going through many changes and came close to going out of business in the late 80's and 90's. They wanted a new car but didn't want to alienate the past buyers which brought the 964, 80% new body parts made to look as no change was made. They wanted a turbo quickly and then went back to the old engine with the even older CIS management system and put it in the new 964 body. I think once the company designed the 993 with the new 4 wheel drive, twin turbo charged engines, did they have a clear picture of what they wanted. At least that is my idea.

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8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

In my opinion, the devaluation of the other Porsches (928, 944, 924 etc) is due to the fact that their maintenance costs were prohibitive (especially the 928)and there really isn't anything unique about them. As far as the 993 being "better" than a 964 or earlier type 911, I would (DARE to) suggest that over a period of time the 993 and 996 may both end up being put into the same class as the 928 (i.e. money hog with a high rate of depreciation over the long term). There are PLENTY of high performance cars out there that can match a 911 performance wise, regardless of the year, but it's no guarantee that the car will be worth squat in 10 or 20 years. The 993s are DIFFICULT to work on, and the 996s are IMPOSSIBLE to work on. I don't recall whether it was a 993 or a 996 (maybe both) but you can't repair the transmission...you just buy a new one...period($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$). DIY is DEAD with these newer cars! I consider the ability to work on a car a plus, not a minus, but if you want to get your hands dirty with a 993 or 996, you'ld better own your own garage or have access to the local mud hole!

Bill Wagner

'91 C4

Originally posted by Bill Wagner:
DIY is DEAD with these newer cars! I consider the ability to work on a car a plus, not a minus, but if you want to get your hands dirty with a 993 or 996, you'ld better own your own garage or have access to the local mud hole!

Bill Wagner

'91 C4

agreed 100%. this was a MAJOR reason for me getting a 1979 924 that had 1980 mechanicals on it, but an earlier electrical system. i think that OBDI and OBDII have made things nearly impossible to word on in modern cars without a VERY expensive set of tools.

as for having a 911 that is "easy" to work on, don't bother with anything built in the 1980s or later. once you step into the domain of oxygen sensors, and electronic fuel injection... things just get hairy.

obin