to restore or not to restore that is the ?
 

hello everyone, i am a new 83 sc owner.its a very nice car that has had only 3 owners before me. my question is, if all the original stuff is still usable and will clean up good should i keep it even though a new part may look better?i mean yes i could get new sun visors but the original ones work and look good other than they are a little fluffy and yes the carpet doesn't look new but it looks pretty darn good to be 25 years old..will it be better in the long run to keep it all original? i want to keep it as stock and original as possible.the original paint is even going to shine up after a buff.anyway i feel very lucky to have got a car in such well cared for condition and want to know if replacing everything that looks older will hurt the value or not effect it at all...thanks, mike

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...4852980625.jpg

Afraid we're gonna need some pics.

Mike:
I've got an 83SC with 70K on it and 74 911 with 121K on it. I drive both of them. I've gone through the 74 (new paint, replaced quite a bit of trim etc.), I just replace it with the OE stuff and I think if anything it's increased the value. I'll never get out of it what I've put into it, but that's not why I bought them.
Unless it's a concours original, I think it's all up to your personal taste. I understand what you're asking though, I wouldn't want to "touch up" a Van Gogh and I know that some antique furniture is devalued by "refinishing" it. I don't think that's the case with a porsche. Unless it's an all original classic with less than a hundred miles on it. Use your judgement and enjoy the heck out of it.

Don't worry Mike, something will come along really soon to spend money on.

Good luck and enjoy the Car. I love SCs.

The mood is changing. Restoration efforts are now being questioned. Remember, restoration is destruction. When you restore a car you return it to a given point in time. You also destroy the car's history. That's why you will never see the Collier 917 restored. Mr. Collier feels that the car's history is more important than having a shiny paint job.

The current feeling is that preservation and conservation is very important. Restoration is best left for those basket case cars with no significant history. There are some cars that are so bad that you have no choice. They simply have to be restored.

This is going to become a big issue over the next decade. I think at some point preserved cars will be the most valuable. That's already the case at the top end of the market. It's a trend that is sure to filter down to our level.

Richard Newton

Autocross Performance Handbook

Wheel and Tire Performance Handbook

Welcome, Mike!

I agree with your basic philosophy to keep it as original and stock as possible. However, freshening it up with new OEM details like carpets etc will not affect its value in a negative way - rather the opposite. You can always keep the original pieces.

With some of the more rare, sought after, models the reasoning can be different. I would, for example, not touch anything original and working in a stock 73RS.

Pics of your car is much appreciated (some claim mandatory)! SmileWavy

If something that is hard to replicate can be saved (carpet, for instance) I'd try to save it. Aftermarket replacement carpet is generally different from the original, so you can generally tell if it has been replaced. Original carpet is hard to find and expensive.

On the other hand, things like front turn signal lenses are easy to get and relatively cheap. The only problem with replacing parts like those is that the new ones will be noticeably better than the parts they are next to, so you will possibly call attention to the other parts, unless you replace/refurbish those as well.

I'd say preserve as much as you can, although I feel that it will still be a long time before the value of a 911SC will be such that the difference might matter.

Enjoy the car,
JR

Welcome Mike

I'd say preserve what you can, don't replace things needlessly. But then your car sounds to be in much better shape than mine!

Hey we may be neighbors, I'm by Houston High school.


Jay

ok,all good answers..i need about 2 more days before i post pics...im still doing a major full detail..i think all im going to need are new tan leather seat covers and some tires, its amazing, im so happy....jt freels, im on raliegh lagrange off hy. 205 yes we are neighbors my brother also has a911 we should have a little early morning run on ral. lag. sometime. oh its a seen man...mike

I had a brilliant college professor named David Easton in college. He used to ask us, "if John Locke kept mending his sock each time a hole was worn in it, and eventually the entire sock has been mended so much that none of the original thread remains, is John Locke's sock still John Locke's sock"?

Does the thread need to match the original, do you need to keep the old thread, or can you replace it, etc etc.

That question drove me nuts. There is no clear answer. 20 years later, it still is driving me nuts. I don't think it's realistic to not replace parts. Replacement when the usable life is almost gone is my general approach. I use factory Porsche parts or oem equivalent.

If you bought the car to drive and enjoy but you want to replace a few things that bug you - then replace it with OEM stuff. I doubt down the road, no one is really going to care that the tired carpet was replaced with new OEM stuff.

If you bought the car to resell - get out now while you still can.

welcome.
ive got an 83 as well. all original except for the stereo & speakers and consumables... coil, wires etc...

i love that my car is original. im not sure what there is to change or why i would change it. if a part was badly damaged or a real eye sore, i would replace with OEM.

if the dash cracked, and its likely to in the next few years, ill have to replace it or repair it. i cant stand looking at a cracked dash. my driver seat is about to split. im undecided about what to do....the seat is otherwise nice....very worn and original which i like. perhaps i will attempt a creative repair using an old cut up brown leather jacket to patch it even though it will look strange. i think i would prefer that to a nice new seat cover. my visors are puffy. if i could find new OEM ones in perfect condition and were brown, i would replace mine. my paint is original. no way im repainting it just because it has chips or dings. i like seeing the cars history revealed on its surfaces

i dont care for 911's that have alot of aftermarket parts unless its a track car.

Hi Mike,

I strongly suggest that you sit back for a month or two, drive the car, then sort out the things that are important to you. After the newness/impulse stuff wears off you will be much better equipped to sort out and prioritize what you want vs. need. There will be no excess cash sitting around for long! And you will save yourself countless mistakes/cash.

My opinion and and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee!!

Oh.......Congratulations!

Scott

flyboy what you said is excactly correct.i just drove the car tonight for the first time more than a block away.(i had to clean the tank and replace fuel pump filter ect) and im totally impressed with the car..i am going to drive it but not everyday.the fact that i own a 911 that runs and drives as it should has really not hit me yet only because i never really thought i could find a nice one in my price range. i have loved the car my whole life..i need time and not to rush to any conclutions just yet of what it needs other than a fuel accumilator, tires and a lot of love...its good to be here and thank for all the comments.i will post pics soon of my 83 sc..thanks, mike

+1

a distinction needs to be drawn between restoration and modification

There are cars that are being dismantled everyday because of wrecked or converted to racers. If you keep a sharp eye out, you can 'trade up' in quality on all the noticeable things like seats, carpet, light lenses, dash, ect. and resell your seat cores, lenses, door panels to someone else who may be less fortunate than yourself for half or better than what you paid. There are deals everyday, get you some!! Congrats on the new ride.

Actually we have 3 directions for any car.

1-Preservation
2-Restoration
3-Modified

Trends come and go. It used to be a big deal to have a restored Porsche. Now the hot market is in the original cars.

A nicely done RGruppe hot rod is also a pricey car, but it has to be done in the correct style for that period.

Richard

Mike,

Welcome neighbor. Don (his brother) told me you had bought that 83. I think it might be one another guy was looking at on Rennlist. In fact, I thought maybe you had signed up over there as well, but that guy already had an 87 cab as well. At any rate, welcome and good pick on the car. I think Don has already told you about the MTFR group. I organize a monthly get together and the next one will probably be next Saturday, 6/21. We look forward to haveing you and Don out with us. Shoot me a PM with your email address and I will add you to the mailing list for news on MTFR dates. There is also a CPA dinner tonight I think. It is the third Thursday of every month and is somewhere is east part of Memphis area usually. Check out www.pca-msr.org for more info on that. Looking forward to meeting you.

BTW, you do great body and paint! Don's car looks great... Jay, if you have not done anything with your collision yet, you should talk with Mike.

Mike, I just checked and the next PCA-MSR dinner is next Thursday, 6/19. It is a cruise in at one of the Sonics, but can't remember which one.

latest pics of the $5,000.00 porsche 911sc
 

here are some pics from today. alot still has to be done..im sure that i will paint the hood and front bumper asap..and plent more nick nack bits from what i can tell. i must restore some of the car in order to save it. its a battle with time and the rust will win if let go to long..it has very little but there is some around the lower corners of the front windshield that scare me the most.they are dime size now..so the windshield must come out and the area will be treated, metal etched and painted..other than that its very clean and super smooth, its a blast to drive feels tight and right with alot of low end so i know its running right...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315601.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315629.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315663.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315681.jpg

more pics
 

thats not rust in the door seal it just old glue its all good and solid..http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315825.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315858.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315887.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315903.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315929.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213315972.jpg

the dash has no cracks and is in excellent condition, the cruise control works, almost everything works exept the a/c and the sun roof. the sun roof did work when i got it but now its acting up, im i little disapointed about it, but no big deal..still has all the original tool kit and spare tire parts, manual, warranty book, and all records of service.it has had the tentioner upgrade the clutch upgrade..even the alarm works..i still cant get over it...mike

mikes new car
 

yea yea, its an awsome car, he even outran me today on ral-lagrange, but my stuff is running lean, he only bought this cream puff because i got one,,,,,the other brother. and slow it down, i know how you drive you motorcycles on ral-lagrange, dont wreck it tommorrow, next time ther is a de in town we are going. Hey shane, we utlized your cis gauges on mikes car today, he need a fuel accum, bo hoo.

mine
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213319503.jpg
the one he wishes he had, ha-ha

shane, is the pca dinner at sonic in memphis ar jackson?

Don, Mike
Great to see y'all on here. Mike,your car looks great!! I had seen Don's car earlier when Shane and I drove over one Saturday to take the gauges and books over. His car looks great also( I realize that YOU did the spraying and body work;))
OK, now y'all are gonna have to make the MTFR runs. Tis the season!!! Mike, looking forward to meeting you and seeing your car in the metal. Don, did you get your CIS worked out?

yeah,me and jeff got sideways on 205 and i stayed in it all the way..it was a little scary and fun, it drove out real nice...mike

i do not do the paint work. that is our other brother jeff(the middel bro.) hes has painted 2 show bikes for me,dons 911 and countless others.he is the best with a real eye for detail and perfection..i think his scedule is wide open so i will ask if he is intrested in doing some stuff for you local guys if you need any small blend ins, panel or rust repair he is the man..mike

whats up
 

hey david, havent heard from you in a while, to your question about my cis, yes the car is running great, only problem is i'm not getting a duty cycle signal to my freuqency valve during wide open throttle, and my car is running lean when i get into the upper rpm's, throttle switch test good, so i think i am going to need another lamda contol module. any of you carb guys got one you want to get rid of? need one off of 82 sc part#0280 800 055. could also use the cold running enrichment module if thats available. (the reley looking thing screwed onto the side of the ecm with a round connecter plug.

oh man, a third brother! How many are their Don? I know you guys are more fond of old pony's, but is your other brother going to get one now?

The dinner next week is at the:

Sonic Drive In
1305 N Germantown
Germantown, TN

The meeting time is 6:30pm. Dave, you going to drive out for this one? I know it is a bit of a drive for you...

At any rate, welcome again Mike. Look forward to meeting you.

And as far as MTFR stuff goes, it looks like next Saturday, 6/21. Still trying to decide on local.

some of jeffs work
 

this is a pic of a few bikes jeff has painted for mehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213333445.jpg

all those stripes are painted on only the words and numbers are decals..there is no paint line on these examples...each of these jobs would have cost at least $3000.00 each...its good to have talanted brothers...mike

originality
 

mike, forget keeping it original, look at the rsr project on the zuffenhaus thread, jeff could do that

OH yeah!!! We love RSR projects. My girl friend's '77 will be finished in two weeks and is gonna need paint. This car is gonna be so sweet. Pat Williams Racing is setting everything up for her weight. He has completely rebuilt the suspension and custom valved the shocks and struts also. It has the Euro 3.0 with the large runners and will scoot!!!:D Pat is off to Barber next weekend and will finish it up totally after he gets back. It is gonna be needing some new paint so......

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1213406509.jpg

Brins car is much further along now than what is pictured. Turbo fenders and rear flares, hood and later model front and rear bumpers and early turbo tail. Bunches more stuff.

i will talk to him but the problem would be space..the paint booth is only big enough to handel bikes..or other smaller item like hoods and fendes..if we had a real shop we would be dangerous...

I believe we could come up with him a shop. I know that Don built his house. I've built a couple. Several of the MTFR guys have built houses and shops. We could all get together and have a barn raising:D. I have enough tools (saws, nailguns,etc) to equip a good size crew. I believe it would be well worth it for one of our MTFR members to have a paint shop:)

shop
 

im all for the paint booth. i keep looking at the rs clones and a think now that my next project will be going in that direction. i really liked matteo's 74 iroc replica, just cant go that extreme, and maybe in black

I have a very original 89 911 Cab. I have replaced a lot of the plastic and rubber parts as they just fade and turn brittle. Replaced interior door handles, light switches in jams and interior lights. Same for the turn signal lenses up front and rear light assemblies. I kept the original radio but to it to a legendary Blaupunkt guy here in LA and had him freshen it up. Upgraded the speakers to MB Quarts but kept the OEM grills. Hollywood VDO changed the tach dial as it was faded. I painted the lug locks myself and you can get the plastic caps for them on PP. Used an orbital to get the rims looking good and polished the painted portions. Anyway, you can do a lot to bring the life of the car back.

Here is a great trick. I then went to my local body shop (does a lot of work on my projects) and asked him for a referral for an interior restorer guy. These guys work typically with dealers and fix nicks, gouges, etc. in dashes, vinyl, and most everywhere. Insurance companies rely on them to restore vandalized cars or when glass from break-in, etc. cut up the interior. Anyway, these guys can do magic. I had them dye / color my tan interior so everything had a consistent color to it as different material (carpet, plastic arm rests, and vinyl) were all fading at different rates. Everything looks very clean and not overly restored. Best of all it is all original. I also had them color the carpet to remove some stains. The leather around the steering wheel and horn were also re-sprayed and look new. Durability has been good as this was done a number of years ago. I also had them spray the faded black carpet in the hatch area of my 928 (from a black purple to black) and it looks great. The feel is a little courser after the process but it is still the original carpet. Hope that helps. Andrew

Any more pics of that bronze beauty around?? Are those fiberglass aftermarket 965 bumpers?? Kewl view and color...