what would the proper etiquette be in this situation

samsnead · 06-22-2008, 03:49 PM

Last year I was considering purchasing a 86 M491 from a gentleman in Jacksonville. I had walked away from the car earlier since he was not willing to be reasonable on the price. He had contacted me a month or so later saying he was willing to reconsider, and had taken the car in for a PPI and everything was solid.

We were able to agree on a price, it was still a bit high but I really liked the car. I had agreed based on an independant PPI; several members on pelican highly recommended a shop for the PPI and the car was sent there. The PPI revealed a couple of leaks, the brakes were below spec, and some other minor things. It would be about $1000 to get the majority of the items taken car of, not including rotors etc. I had spoken with the owner and we agreed that there were no deal breakers, I stated an adjustment will be made based on the issues not revealed in the previous PPI. We were pressed for time during teh conversation, so we agreed that I would make arrangements to come down the following week. I called early in the week andasked that a $500 adjustment be made on the price due to the issues discovered. His attitude was a bit different this time and he said that he woudl speak with the mechanic and let me know. I had reminded him that I was tentatively flying down the next day; he assured me he would call before days end.

I ended up confirming my flight without hearing from him, I was willing to pay the previously agreed price anyways so no big deal. I finally heard from the gentlemen and he told me he now wanted $2000 more, there was another interested party. Obviously I hit the roof and was quite upset. I had built my travel around some work items, so I was stuck travelling to Jacksonville on my own dime. I called the mechanic the next day and pressed them on what happened, the whole deal did a 180 after the owner and mechanic conversed. He assured me he was not trying to buy the car, he wouldnt do that. I later found out that he had known the car since the owner took delivery( He was a mechanic at Brumos) and he had always wanted it.

I messaged the pelican members who referred the mechanic and they had said he wouldnt do that, hes not that kind of person. I had no choice but to move on, I wasnt willing to pay more on principal alone.

I was checking the classifieds today and found this:
http://www.rennlist.com/ads/ -ad #7977

Thats the car, and that the mechanic that did the PPI. What a POS.

I cant believe that he took money for the PPI and then bought the car from under me.

Trog · Trog's Garage

Just walk away.. there's no upside here.

widgeon13 · 06-22-2008, 04:06 PM

Both the seller and mechanic are *********s, don't waste any more time on them.

kilodawg · kilodawg's Garage

The whole story sucks. I had a similar experience with a person who was highly respected on Rennlist. I sent him money to hold the car at his request while I arranged for a PPI and he sold the car out from under me. So I feel your pain.

As far as your story goes my take is that as soon as you agree to pay for a PPI that car is yours to either accept or reject and the price should either be the asking price or some adjustment based on the results of the PPI. However, that should be the clear understanding of both parties before the PPI is performed.

It's hard to tell if that was the case here. It almost sounds as if you dictated that there would be an adjustment after you received the results of the PPI but that he may not have concurred to that at the time. To me the story hinges on that point. If he agreed in principle to a adjustment you were in final negotiations for the car. If this was a new wrinkle to him and an attempt (in his mind) to talk down what was his price for the car then I could see why he would consider taking another offer.

Regardless, IMHO the mechanic should have not gotten in between you and the purchaser. Unfortunately, this kind of thing probably happens more than any of us would care to believe. Nothing trumps cash in hand at the door.

samsnead · 06-22-2008, 04:10 PM

My frustration was that we had a deal and an agreed price. I was still willing to pay the agreed upon price after the PPI and told the seller that when we had spoken that evening.

Whtnkls911 · 06-22-2008, 04:10 PM

For 32K go, buy a real turbo. I realize the M491 option raises the value but the car has 178,000 miles on it. Save your money find another car or go buy a nice low milage turbo for the same money.

widgeon13 · 06-22-2008, 04:13 PM

Question is "Did the mechanic rig the PPI" and then make a bid to buy the car as is and the $1000 of cost was a lie in the first place.

kilodawg · kilodawg's Garage

Okay then they should both rot in hell....

However, Whtnkls911 has a great point. If your agreed price was in the ballpark of the current $32K asking price, and the car's mileage is 178,000 then somebody above was looking out for your best interests afterall...

vreference · 06-22-2008, 04:15 PM

Worthless.

No doubt the thought process is something along the lines of "I don't know him." This is one of the lowest moves anyone can make; akin to sleeping with someone’s wife. I'd probably spread the information far and wide if it happened to me. As far as I know, truth is still an absolute defense against libel. I don't think they have any legal recourse by any stretch of the imagination so long as everything you say can be proven.

samsnead · 06-22-2008, 04:16 PM

The current pricing is indicative of the individuals character.

I had agreed to buy the car at $23k, I assume that he bought it for $25k. Both prices are high for that car.

kilodawg · kilodawg's Garage

Agreed. Don't lose any more sleep over it. (easier said than done I know)

billh1963 · billh1963's Garage

Things happen for a reason. You've saved some money that you can use when something better comes along.

Brother · 06-22-2008, 05:14 PM

Well, I think Autosport Florida just fell off the good list.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

That car is about $10K overpriced, consider yourself lucky and that bozo will sit on it for a good long time IMO..

VaSteve · 06-22-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilodawg

Okay then they should both rot in hell....

However, Whtnkls911 has a great point. If your agreed price was in the ballpark of the current $32K asking price, and the car's mileage is 178,000 then somebody above was looking out for your best interests afterall...

No kidding. That's a ****load of money for a high mileage "rare" car.

How rare is the M491 coupe anyway? I know at least 3 guys with M491 cabs....

Racerbvd · Racerbvd's Garage

I honestly didn't think that he would pull that on you & still feel bad about the whole deal.

wcc · 06-22-2008, 06:24 PM

I hate these kinds of stories! That's a bunch of BS. If you are looking for a very nice well sorted 930 let me know because mine will soon be up for sale. If you want details let me know even though it'll be more then the 23k you were going to pay.

dw1 · 06-22-2008, 06:54 PM

One idea: Get a refund on the PPI from the mechanic who is selling the car by threating legal action for fraud. "He assured me he was not trying to buy the car" you wrote.

I know it's your word versus his, and would be too expensive to seriously pursue, but the threat can get people's attention. That, and posting the name of the individual & his shop's name here urging all to avoid doing business with that establishment and individual.

Oh, and it appears ad #7977 is no longer on the rennlist site.

dw1 · 06-22-2008, 06:54 PM

One idea: Get a refund on the PPI from the mechanic who is selling the car by threating legal action for fraud. "He assured me he was not trying to buy the car" you wrote.

I know it's your word versus his, and would be too expensive to seriously pursue, but the threat can get people's attention. That, and posting the name of the individual & his shop's name here urging all to avoid doing business with that establishment and individual.

Oh, and it appears ad #7977 is no longer on the rennlist site.

M491Cabriolet · 06-22-2008, 07:13 PM

Yeah, the story stinks. There is way too little integrity out there. The mechanic is probably the culprit, but the seller probably did not know how rare the M491 is and realized late that he was making a mistake in selling too cheaply to you. The mechanic sure did know what he had. I bet he saw it as a way to make some money and offered the seller 1/2 way between the agreed price to you and the current asking price.

Make no mistake about it. These are extremely rare cars. I mean the real factory M491 option. There are plenty of lookalikes and wannabes out there claiming to be the real deal, but there are few and far between of the factory M491 optioned cars. I have a real deal 1989 M491 Cabriolet with COA and about 62000 original miles on it. I don't plan to ever sell it because I really love it. According to Porsche, there were only 43 (or was that 48?) M491 Cabriolets made in 1989. 1989 was a short year because the C2 came out in August. By any measure, that's a really rare car. There were some slightly higher numbers built in earlier years, but not more than 150-200 I think. Many of them, because they are all 911 Turbo except for only the engine, were made into race cars, making survivors even more rare. Others were just driven a lot like the one you wanted, which is not necessarily a terrible thing. These cars are made to be driven. Anyway, I'm sorry to hear about your bad deal, but if you keep looking, you will find another one. Keep your chin up!