Anyone using the PMO EFI setup?
 

Part of the planning... I want the looks of the classic carb setup with the modern EFI option... and PMO seems to have done that with their new system.

Anyone using it? Feedback, photos, total cost of converting from CSI to this? 40, 46? :confused:

This is for my RSR project... and again... down the road... just doing the research early.

Thank you!!

http://www.pmocarb.com/Images/EFI-2.jpg


SmileWavy

Some threads I have found during my research...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/383221-new-pmo-tbs.html?highlight=PMO+EFI

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/384571-3-0-cis-3-5-itb-efi.html?highlight=PMO+EFI

We put this set up from Clewett on a track car for one of our customers. It came with a Tech GT management system.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1216671679.jpg

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I've been looking at using the PMO EFI setup from Clewett w/ the Twin-plug setup when it is time to rebuild my engine... Luckily, that is still a 1 - 1.5 years away, but I'm very interested in seeing what people say about this setup.

OK.... and the rest of the story :) Details man! Details please!! And more and bigger photos would be a plus... what does that engine look like from the front? Installed?

Those look just like the set-up I will be using. Have the TMW version, but essentially the same. I am going to use the Clewett Engineering stuff I have for the trigger, and us the 034Motorsports.com stand alone system. Complete for about $2000 for the EFI.

Here is what I have. Finally pulled the stuff out last night after a few years in storage.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1216688278.jpg

You might want to checkout http://www.hargettprecision.com/ and check out his billet ITB's

Wachuko, I will take some installed pics and post them tues. evening.

I used the TWM ITBs in my EFI setup. I do see some important improvements in the PMO version. Most notably is that of the individual vacuum ports for each throat. I can tell you that the TWMs have a single vacuum port for each bank. This arrangement will not create a stable MAP signal. I had to drill and install my own vacuum take-offs for each throat in the manifolds.
Otherwise they are very similar even down to the designed usage of weber/zenith/PMO manifolds and linkage.

Here is my EFI install.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/349639-efi-kicks-st-goes-electric.html?highlight=efi+kicks

Regarding your choice for 40 or 46mm I think it would depend on your engine. If you plan to stay with a 3.0 or 3.2 based engine that runs at less than 7K rpm I would stay with 40mm. The 46 have a large swept area when the butterfly opens. this means an almost instantaneous lean condition off idle when the throttle is cracked. This creates a difficult (not impossible) situation to tune out. There would be less of an issue with the smaller 40mm ITBs and loss of flow at high rpms would not be a problem.

I don't see where the PMO's can be balanced. Can they?

I am very happy with my Jenveys.

Cheers

Re: Management systems

Tthere are so many options. This area I know well, and the prices for really good and high tech systems have come down quite a bit. Meaning, that there are many new mid-price options with great features. I have been thinking about this for years, and actually purchased the Throttle bodies many years ago. I am so looking forward to the EFI. I had great performance with the carbs, but I think with a good tuned EFI system, the carbs can't compete. Not talking all out power, I mean cold, warm, hot conditions, racing etc...

I am in the process of ditching my carbs and going 48mm taper Jenveys with Omex ecu and crankfire ,mainly for mpg.Should be a good set up I will post results in the next few weeks

Just looking for a complete package that will give me the looks of carb setup with the benefit of EFI... I like how the PMO look.

It will be installed in a stock 3.0 engine... down the road, God knows what changes I will make to it... but for now is going into the stock unit.

Anyone with a PMO complete solution that I can install myself? Or something that looks the same... really don't care about brand as long as it is a clean install and complete solution.

I've been looking into this too, the PMO ends aren't the same as the middle so you will loseave some performance on the table(they will still be excellect compared to a single plenum design)

Feedback from several builders re Jenvy is that they would rather use something else

TWM's are very nice

Rennsport has a nice setup too

In the grand scheme of things, this kind of set-up should perform better and the cost is not that outrageous either. Given what we all pay for other parts and services, this was a sure thing for me. You get EFI, ignition control for single and dual plugs, with direct fire coils...A normal duel plug distributor costs more than most EFI systems alone. Manifolds and throttle bodies are pricey, but I got mine used for a great deal. Came off of a ferrari(12cyl), so sold the other two.

I do not know about the larger displacement engines, but I can wait to get it on my 2.4S engine.

oh, one design aspect that has been an issue with some of these Throttle bodies, is the spray coming out of the tips may not be at the utmost optimal angle. Meaning it not atomized correctly and/orI will put plugs in mine and make sure they spray correctly and the at the right angles when machined. This is not Porsche specific, just a general statement. Will check mine and see if it is an issue down the road.

Just adding an aftermarket EFI to a stock single plenum manifold opens up a world of possibilities. I was recently exposed to a Motec'ed 964, by removing the stock air meter and using tps & map it allowed the use of some happy cams. Add headers and you've got 300 tractable hp from a 3.6 w/ stock p/c and rods. A truely amazing package.

Thank you! SmileWavy

Bill,
Do you know which cams were added?

Thank you,

Doug

I believe Protomotive, Inc. should be able to modify the factory Motronic system to work with these.

Wach, installed pic.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1216824302.jpg

Ooooooohhhh man!!! After seeing that photo I need a few minutes alone...

Thank you!!

They were a variation on one of 9M's grinds, using max lift and duration compatible w/ stock piston tops. Don't remember the specs off the top of my head, but they were as lumpier than RS but not quite to RSR

They are almost the only ones in this country that can. The beauty of aftermarket is the ability for any one to tweek the maps based on what they are seeing in their car on a given day.

Bill,

A race built ECU would be great.

My understanding is with the Protitech conversion you get the software to burn your own chips.

My thinking is:

It would just be cool to keep the stock Motornics.

The stock Motronics are proven and reliable.

There would be a savings of time and effort from not having to tare the car up for a rewire and to install a crank position sensor.

This would will be an expensive conversion no mater. I believe $2600 for the PMO kit, $2200 for the Protimotive conversion, and maybe $500 net from selling off the stock 3.2 manifold.

It could make for borader market appeal if PMO would got together with Todd or somone and developed a proven turn key packabe that keeps the Motornics and is easy to install in a day. This could be for the 3.2 or 964.

Make it CARB legal and you could have a winner.

Thank you all for your posts and PMs. Special thanks to Richard Clewett for his detailed email.

For my stock 3.0: Approximate cost of the basic single plug throttle body system(ECU, coils, PMO
Throttles, injectors, un-terminated wire harness, fuel regulator, sensors &
connectors, etc.), crank trigger adapter, cam sync adapter and spark plug wires is $6500. Stock CIS fuel pump will work fine for this setup...

Now I have a $# that I can work with.

Thank you again!

Clewett seem to have a few 'ready-made' packages on their site (no idea how 'ready-made' they are) - either with or without twin- plugging

http://www.clewett.com/products/engnmgmt/emsys.htm

Yep, i had to do the same thing with the vacuum ports. I used the clewett setup, with Tec II also. Never could get it running exactly right. It either ran great on the track, and crappy around town, or the other way around, but passing emissions was a huge challenge every year. I believe the new windows GUI system is much improved from what I hear though.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217721136.jpg

Almost stock 3.0SC engine with PMO
 

Hi folk's.
The thread is a few years old now, but here's my build.

1982 3.0 204hp ROW engine, CR. 9.8:1 with the following changed parts.
964 cams timed at 1.55
180hp heads with 38mm ports
Complete Pre -74 Dansk exhaust
Electromotive TecGT engine management
PMO 46mm throttle bodies

It now puts out 215bhp and 256Nm at the wheels. Corrected for 15% drive-train loss the engine is now good for 253bhp and 301Nm at the crank.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386660556.jpg

I am VERY happy with how it peforms, it just pulls like a train all the way from 2000rpm until the redline :)

Regards
Eskild from Norway.

How it looks
 

Here's how it looks in the enginebay

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386661046.jpg

Oh my!
I love it.

This has been on my "todo" list for about eight years... That happens when you're a single parent.
So my kids are grown and I'm redoing my "todo" list right now :D

Thanks for the inspirational thread. Good luck.

Old School
 

Not the PMO setup, but a little old school and new ideas that we did in a 73 car @ Rothsport.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1391640000.jpg

Rothsport system, it is the best one out there,period.,btdt, Stef.

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Is there enough clearance to clean air filter with out removing engine?

Yes, no problem.