Pedals for throttle blip downshifts

[Flieger]

I want to adjust the alignment of the brake pedal position relative to the throttle pedal position.

The throttle needs to be higher or the brake lower in order for me to smoothly blip the throttle to match revs on downshifts.

Car is a 1971 911S.

I see in Wayne's book how to rebuild, refresh, and install bronze bushings in the pedal cluster.

While I'm in there, is it possible to re-index the pedals on the shaft?

I have not started the rebuild yet.

Thanks

[Noah930]

Careful what you ask for. The brake is supposed to be "higher" than the throttle. That way, if you experience brake fade during a spirited lapping session/race, and the pedal slowly sinks to the floor as the laps progress, then the brake is still higher than the throttle. Also keep in mind that you will stomp on the brakes (relative term) in a track setting (so the brake pedal will go down much closer to the floor), though such hard braking is rarely used on the street.

The goal is for the brake to always be "higher" than the throttle, through heavy braking and/or brake fade. That way, you never accidentally grab a footful of throttle while trying to brake (as would happen if the throttle were "higher" than the brake).

But, one suggestion that's been made to me (by Jeff Gamroth?) is to simply bolt an additional plastic throttle pedal (or piece of wood) on top of the one that's already there. Raises the throttle slightly, but not too much. Cheap and easy.

[JFairman]

There's a threaded rod that adjusts the brake pedal height. You'll see it down there...
Don't lower it too far.
A search on heel and toe pedal adjustment might find more on the subject.

[Zeke]

And, there are a couple of aftermarket gas pedals to choose from in the Pelican catalog. I guess they discontinued the one I bought. I love the thing and it's adjustable every way to Sunday.

[rfn026]

One way to do this is to use a set of worn out brake pads for determining the height of the brake pedal. You want the pedal to be the way it might be at the end of an endurance race. Now use something like a 1"x4" block of wood to get the accelerator pedal at the right height.

I blip the throttle with the edge of my right foot while pushing down on the brake pedal with the left side of my foot. I want the accelerator pretty close to the height of the depressed brake pedal in order to do this smoothly.

I also want the edge of the revised accelerator pedal very close to the edge of the brake pedal.

Richard Newton

Autocross Performance Handbook

Wheel and Tire Performance Handbook

[rusnak]

I think this is a great question. I'd leave the brake pedal alone though. I think it's held on with a rollpin, but I could be wrong.

It's easier and safer to cut the throttle shaft and maybe thread it with a dye if you can find a small turnbuckle or something.

I also bought a Rennline adjustable throttle pedal. As long as you loctite the mounting bolts, it's a great piece, and I can blip the throttle with impunity!

[VFR750]

Originally Posted by JFairman

There's a threaded rod that adjusts the brake pedal height. You'll see it down there...
Don't lower it too far.
A search on heel and toe pedal adjustment might find more on the subject.

+1

The threaded rod is easy to adjust. I lowered my pedal so that under hard braking it was a easy reach to get the throttle. However under light braking, like on the street, it's a little tough. Dress shoes with a heel makes it easier. Sneakers, not so easy.

Try a little adjustment at a time. It doesn't take much adjustment to get it to where you like it. You definitely want to insure that you can get full brakes with some amount of fade. Assuming you are planning on driving that hard.

[Zeke]

The clutch pedal is solid on the shaft with the roll pin. The brake pedal rotates on the clutch pedal shaft and does have an adjustment. That should be set to factory specs! Change the gas pedal anyway you wish.

[rusnak]

yeah, I thought it was a bad idea to mess with the brake pedal so I messed with my throttle pedal.

Here's an old pic. I've cleaned things up since then.

[PCA7GGR]

If you plan to remove the pedal cluster to replace the bushings, you can cut the brake pedal pad off the shaft, cut the shaft about .5in and then weld the pad back on the brake pedal shaft. This will lower the brake pedal enough to facilitate "heel-toe" (or big toe-little toe").

I found raising the throttle via a block of wood or using a specialized pedal alters my right leg "geometry" so that it become uncomfortable. Shortening the brake pedal works for me but may not for you or others. Just another alternative to consider.

[Flieger]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Good information.

I do not have trouble with fade, as this is an agressive street driver on the weekend with some autocrosses. The car weighs 2000 pounds so the factory 1971 911S brakes feel adequate for me. I use engine braking and prefer to do hill-climb rather than hill-descents.

I thnk I will try the threaded rod adjustment to the brake pedal, as this seems like the finest adjustment and easy to return to stock. I will keep close track of the threads.

I use the right side of my foot to blip the throttle while I brake with the left side. I have some Pilotis and my own generic shoes that I like to drive in. My BMW has the pedals set up so that when the brake pedal gets long or I really need to stomp on it, the throttle is still just below the brake. I like this position.

The 911 brakes are so good that they don't fade or get longer. Even when really pressing them, it is still too high. I did realize the need to allow for this, though.

Those throttle pedals are pretty interesting. I will try the threaded rod adjustment.

Thanks for the help. Time to go have some fun

[3rd_gear_Ted]

I bought some Sparco aluminum pedal pads. The gas pedal one is slightly arched out further and it got the gas pedal in just the right relation to the brake pedal for my heel & toe, brake & downshifting technique.

[midnight911]

others screw another stock pedal on...

[Jay Laifman]

Gee. How about one better. Once I figured out how to do it on my 911, it's a no brainer. All you have to do while you are braking your 911, is brake with the ball of your foot, not the toes, when your heal is NOT on the floorboard but up in the air. Then when you want to blip the gas, you simply rotate your foot at the ball of your foot with your heal over to the top/middle of the gas pedal. It requires NO modification to your car at all!

Since you are not used to it, it might seem a little odd at first. But, I promise you, do it for a little while and your issue will be solved. And, you'll have a much more solid contact on the brake pedal.

[javadog]

That's actually the correct method, which is why it is typically called "heel and toe." Only downside is some people have a hard time rotating their feet around that far.

By the way, the threaded rod adjustment that some folks have been talking about really applies to the cars with brake boosters. The original poster has an older car, sans booster.

JR

[Flieger]

I thought it would be so simple. Oh well, I guess I will try to modify the throttle pedal.

So the brake pedal cannot be re-indexed on the pedal cluster shaft?

[naparsei]

Originally Posted by javadog

That's actually the correct method, which is why it is typically called "heel and toe." Only downside is some people have a hard time rotating their feet around that far.



JR

Close. I believe that what you are describing is more correctly "toe and heel" since you brake first. In many old competition cars, the gas pedal was actually the middle pedal, with the brake on the right The gas pedal was also higher up the firewall in many cases. In those cars (I've not driven one, but I've seen a couple at the Ferrari factory), I think you would be braking with your heel, then reach up and to the left to blip. I could be wrong.

[lfot]

This is an interesting thread. I have the same problem in that the brake pedal, even under hard braking, never seems to be in a position for me to easily reach the gas in any of the "heel and toe" methods (ball of foot and heel on gas, side or foot on top of gas, etc). I'm a tall guy with appropriately sized feet (let's keep those minds clean everybody). Usually I drive with Pilotis, so shoes aren't really the issue.

Has anyone tried the Rennline adjustable gas pedals with the extentions? What other options are there in the realm of height/width adjustable gas pedals. I'm not looking for shiny boy-racer stuff. Just functionality.

[wastintime]

Eh, rennline's not bad, but if you can find a Wings Engineering 3rd foot... there's nothing better for a 911

[lfot]

Originally Posted by wastintime

Eh, rennline's not bad, but if you can find a Wings Engineering 3rd foot... there's nothing better for a 911

Well, for one, those appear to be unobtanium these days. Also, I'm thinking I want something that is height adjustable.