I love 930's and there are many advantages to them but it is to easy to modify a 3.2 G50 Carrera that I would consider it as a viable possibility w a few advantages of its own.

First it has much better gear ratios w the five speed. Second it has better turbo cams already. Third it dose not have the small restrictive intake ports needed for good CIS Air Fuel mixing. Fourth, it is EFI so it has better fueling potential with less lag.

If I were to mod one stage one would be a low pressure blow through set up w a 930 exhaust and a custom turbo that is a bolt on. I would run an intercooler and .5 bar boost. Turn the fuel quality switch to retard the timing a bit and run a raising rate fuel pressure reg that increased fuel w boost for about 350+ Hp.

Stage two would be to keep the stock cylinders and run a set of Turbo J&E pistons w about 8/1 compression. Add an MSD ignition w boost retard feature and convert it to a suck through or a vac sensing style system. Add 944 Turbo injectors for over 400HP.

People would no know what hit them.

It is all fun.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/pts/849878575.html

I found this on craigslist. Whata you guys think??

What else would i need to get the car running with this set up?

There is some things that might be usable there.

Don't think the intercooler, heat exchangers, or the turbo are of much use.

Your heat exchangers are the same.

The goodies there is the J pipe (between the heat exchangers and turbo), wast gate, muffler, oil supply, and brackets.

Would have to know more about the turbo but you would likely go with a ball bearing that dose not require the oil flow of a K27.

For that much I would look into an after market header style exaust system or have ER convert a set of SSI's for turbo use.

Randy,

For the life of me I cannot comprehend why you continue to belabor the idea of swapping a G50 for a 915-based gearbox. Nobody in their right mind does this to lose weight. They accept the additional weight and look elsewhere for savings.

As far as the other ideas for gaining speed, yes, substantial weight loss is key. But it costs you quite a bit of convenience- something street car drivers may not be keen on. Complete A/C delete, windshield washer bottle removal, seat removal/swap, sound deadening removal, fiberglass body parts, stereo equip removal, all do add up. My car weighs 2500 with 1/2 tank of gas equipped in such a way. It's still plenty streetable. One can take it a step further and gut the interior, add a roll bar and you've got a formidable track car. There goes the streetability..........

For a car that has to maintain some sense of practicality/comfort, I think some basic weight loss, trans gearing and engine displacement are going to be your best bet. Piecemeal attempts like cams and a chip need to be approached as a complimenting system. Cams alone will do little- i've experienced that myself with my car.

'cuz the 915 FEELS like a Porsche

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/234974-did-hp-junkies-finally-died.html?highlight=juan+ruiz

Lemme guess, your car has a 915 Randy?!

mmn710, you can use all that stuff no problem (waste of time swapping the exchangers), all you need is a protomotive chip and some kind of rising rate fuel pressure regulator, you can go cheap and adjustable with the BEGI or plug and play but a little exy with the protomotive unit. Don't underestimate the ol K27, they can boogy and will easily create the boost you need and spool up pretty quick. Just run .5 bar and you wont need an intercooler for around 360hp, blow the doors of your mates car, ask me I know.

I loved my K27-7200 and it works great up to about 380 FWHP.

Not sure about using a first generation 76-89 930 turbo though.

3LDZ is original, K27s are an upgrade.

Plenty turbo for .5 bar, turbos are barely spinning at that, the wastegate opens very early.

Curious to know what your speed (mph) was when you topped out in 4th gear. My 86 carrera does 100mph in 3rd gear with still a little more rpm to go, can't imagine what speed I'd be going topped out in 4th or even 5th gear would be. Who cares if you can or can't beat a z you will look better just driving a Porsche. I've driven lots of hot cars but I've got more "nice car" compliments since I've owned my Porsche than all the others combined. So there's really no need to drive fast enough to beat a z car.

Ya our cars are very good looking cars. Just wanted to have some fun playing around with my friends Z.

I think im just gonna go with the weight saving side for now then when i get more money ill play around with some boost just hoping i don't break anything haha.

As for my speed at the end of 4th i don't really know what it was and I don't wanna haha. It was very dumb but I was in that mode where I had to beat him once i was ahead of him and I didn't wanna let go haha. Trust me I wouldn't be pulling that again.

I actually got video of it...I gotta get my friend to send it to me

Just thought this was worth repeating. I have heard that the effect is like a 50 HP boost.

+1 on gears.

If you look at a gear chart and the rpm drops between shifts and compair it against an HP chart you can see that you can operate at a much higher average HP with gears. Think of that pull you get when we come on cam in a gear all the time when accelerating.

It might be a bit expensive to do gears on a G50. Only a guess but about $4k plus then add for a limited slip diff. You would want the LSD any way.

A packaged low boost turbo conversion is about $6k and makes the current ratios perfect.

However, I would buy a used Porsche w gears and would pay extra but would not touch a used Turbo conversion car. ;)

hmmmm.... 915, anyone?

Apparently you haven't pursued regearing a 915. If you think 915 close ratio gears are markedly cheaper than G50? Keep dreamin'. :D Regearing of any Porsche 911 transaxle costs a small fortune, even if you DIY it. Porsche gears are not cheap, period.

agree not cheap - but the ease of finding a good used 915 gear is >>> same for G50

And the G50 dose not so much need aux. cooling compaired to a 915.

Turbos make for lousy drag cars.....ask me how I know :D
For performance from a standing start, do like Steve W. says, go with a close-ratio 'box.
If money is no object, build an ITB 3.9 motor and drop it in a 2100 lb. car.

True. But cooling is good for any trans if it sees track use. More importantly, the G50 transaxles prove their superiority durability-wise as evidenced by the lack of G50 rebuilding posts on this board. You won't find a whole lot of documentation on G50 worn synchros/dog teeth, stuck in reverse or complete rebuilds because the transaxles don't require it as much as the 915. 915 may have better feel and may be lighter, but the G50 gearbox itself (original clutch operating system aside) has the upper hand in durability without question.

If you want to make your G50 3.2 faster, it's the same as any other car. Do the following in order of cost/benefit ratio:

Lose weight
Fiddle with cam, exhaust and chip combinations
Bolt on a turbo kit
Increase engine displacement
Remap gear stack
Buy a C5 corvette Z06

Dang, I could of had a V8!

;)

Give it up. You've been out gunned. The Z has four valves per cylinder and 240 hp vs your puny 2 valve 217 ponies.

Best advice, don't waste your time.

Go buy a Vette if you are that kind of driver. I think it would suit you better.

Alright you guys obviously lost the whole idea I have. Yes if I was into that stuff i would get an american muscle car, but i have a porsche and I dont plan on getting rid of the car. I just wanted to get more power out of it, like everyone else likes to do once they get used to the speed of there car..

Here is some helpful info from the pca website.

The best overall summary on this subject is in Bruce Anderson's "911
Performance Handbook, Second Edition," published by Motorbooks
International. In order to get more power out of the engine, it has to be
able to pump more air at a higher rate. In general, there are two
categories of improvements for this; external mods to the engine and
combined external plus internal upgrades. Your question seems to refer to
just external changes that can be made to the engine. On the 3.2 911
Carrera, enough test data has been done to show that most of the external
gains that can be made are in the exhaust system. Short of changing the
mass air flow sensor to a hot wire device or converting to carburetors
there isn't much that can be done to improve the engine intake airflow.
Tests without any air cleaner at all on the 3.2 have been shown to be
within 0.5 hp of the factory air cleaner, so it is unlikely that
something else will improve on it. One of the biggest areas of
improvement possible is the exhaust system to eliminate the crossover
exhaust from the right hand bank to the left hand bank and get back to
the 1974 style 911 headers with each bank separately feeding the muffler.
Bruce's book indicates the exhaust change is worth about 13 hp and the
best chip they found was worth about 9 hp. In a few cases they
investigated, combining external gains would approach a hp level of 240
for the 3.2 engine. Beyond that, increased displacement and internal
changes are required.

Dude, I know exactly what you mean... Those who say they don't enjoy the occasional drag in a safe environment aren't true petrol heads in my opinion and are more likely covering the fact that their car is slow.... The answer to your question, if you really want power add a turbo, it's very easy I did mine in a weekend and it's reversible, also the parts are easy to sell if you decide to ditch it or the car. Messing around with intake and exhaust mods will increase your power a bit but wont make it a screamer, even if you could get it up to 993 power with NA mods (which you wont) I could still fly past you!

I think that 13 hp was at a lower rpm not peak HP and this was with a sport muffler on top of the back date.

All the info I have seen after BA's book indicates there is a little added bump at around 3K rpm w a back date or SSIs but past that the hp is the same as keeping the stock heat exchangers with a change to a cat bypass or euro muffler. The gain is about 7HP. Adding a sport muffler on ether of these adds about another 7hp.

The SW chip seems to be a winner. I belive the reason the 3.2 responds so well to the exhaust is because the factory runs there chip rich I am guessing as a protection above 5k rpm where the AFM seems to stall and there is no longer any real measurement of the air flow. Adding a lower restriction exhaust flows more air and gets us to a better AF ratio. On earlyer cars like a 2.4s adding a sport muffler made the car run lean.

With the right mods, some belive the intake manifold responds to porting or extrude honing. I am doubtful unless the motor is enlarged and or a higher rpm cam is used with good exhaust changes.

With a cat bypass and chip I am pulling 215 rwhp (250 fwhp). A friend w a sport muffler cat bypass and chip got another 6hp on me.

For compairsion, another friend has a 2.8 RS mfi twin plug motor and full race mufflers pulls close to 200rwhp.

I think the factory HP ratings are a bit constitutive or something. I suspect we are very close to what a euro car would pull w good gas, a premuffler and a stock chip (231).

Get the weight down by 450 lbs (15%) with a well tuned stock motor(+10%) and it should be pretty fast car.

Just some opinions for what I have read and seen on my 85.

Just look at the link(build) in my sig then you will be all set

IIRC, my old '88 w/G50 ran these speeds in the top four gears

2nd 63
3rd 95
4th 125
5th 150

How much money do you want to spend?

That's the key. To get more power out of a 911 costs cubic $$$. You don't really get much power out of a chip, and you don't get any power by cutting or drilling the airlid of a 3.2L car. The 3.2L cars have been dynoed and found that the airbox was not a limiting factor for making power.

Exhaust would be a limiting factor. If you can get rid of the cat and go to a equal length dual exhaust with a dual outlet muffler, that should make an improvement.

I think much past that, and you have to start looking at taking the engine apart to replace rod bolts and cams etc.... That gets $$$

Strip the car down as light as you can get it. A targa will be a bit hampered because of that giant (heavy) rear window and the top.

If you want a faster 911, you could always swap in a 3.6L out of a later car. That should run you about $10-15k.

If you don't care about keeping it original, this is the best bang for the bucks. Lots of bucks, but lots of bang:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176597&highlight=protom otive

But, to repeat a previous post, turbos make lousy drag cars because of the "...not yet... not yet...NOW!" kind of acceleration, i.e. more high end HP than low-end torque.

If you want a "stoplight stormer", go "old school" with an engine swap:

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/06/porsche-911-with-chevy-v8-transplant.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/320884-small-block-chevy-v8-powered-911s.html?highlight=chevy+v8

After all, a Cobra was just a British sports car (AC Ace) with a Ford V8.... ;)

Ahhhhh there's a hell of a lot of turbo drag cars out there... That way of thinking is very old school.

A member of this forum got into 10s with a turbo 3.2 with stock internals.

Spence88mph -

You are absolutely correct, if we were talking about a timed 1/4 mile, but the original topic appears to be more focused on stoplight street drags, where the first 100 yards or so are the most important.

Implicit in my previous message was some not-too-subtle commentary on the kind of modifications to a 911 required to focus on that kind of inappropriate (IMHO) but admittedly entertaining street racing. Either get a 'vette or some v8 muscle car, or put the engine from one in your 911. If one wants to really enjoy their 911, don't waste time with street punks or rice burners at stoplights, find a good back road, or even better, when & where one can take their 911 to the track - and not a drag strip.

dwi, I understand what you're saying but all I can say is until you experience it first hand you wont understand. A carrera running .7bar on a stock engine can do 0-60mph in 4.2 secs timed by Protomotive. Having that setup I can tell you it launches incredibly well with very little wheel spin as all the weight of the car is over the back wheels.

You're thinking of the laggy 930 style engine, not an efi 9:1 engine with a modern day ball bearing turbo, very different. Power is linear not on and off. The 911 is not a drag car we all know that but it is nice to waste a hero now and then though ;)

So it looks like I will be putting a 3.2 (that I already have so don't tell me to get a 3.6) into my 77 widebody for the track. I want more than the stock power so what should I do to it?
My goal is 250 HP if possible.

I am considering back dated exhaust (already on the car - it it big enough for a 3.2), chip, cams (which ones?), and possibly running webers (I already have some for the 2.7 that I would rather kep with the 2.7).

to get an honest 250 you will want to emulate the SC/RS

Mahle 10.5 p/c, twin plug, 1 5/8" ID headers, Motec(preferred) w/ ITBs or MFI or carbs

I assume you're talking 250 to the wheels, correct? I'm making 213 to the wheels now w/ my near-stock 3.2L (no internal changes, stock air flapper, just a chip & bypass w/ M&K muffler, etc.). That's right at 250 crank hp with 15% driveline losses.

spence88mph -

Thanks for the clarification. I was indeed thinking of a 930-type turbo setup. I honestly didn't know that the Protomotive setup was that much different.

So, you're running the "stage 1 upgrade" setup? Any problems/issues/enhancements?

Yeah you can be forgiven, in all honesty I didn't believe it either until I did the kit, I was so blown away after the first drive, was such a rush to almost double the power over night (it really is a weekend job, once you've done one you could do it in a day). It's hard to believe how linear it can be, because you're not dropping the compression and using a turbo that spools up very quickly the power is so smooth.

No, I have run at .7bar on a freezing day a couple of runs but the car just runs stage 1 (.5bar) as I need to get an intercooler fabricated to fit under the lid as I don't want to mount the wing. Issues, the only issue I had was the stock porsche plastic elbow blowing off under boost, once I replaced it with a silicon elbow it's been fine. I really can't think of any shortcomings, actually you really need to upgrade the rear torsion bars as the car squats very badly!

If you keep drag racing you will soon lose 1st gear in the 915. That gear box was simply not built for this. Mr Porsche once said cars have first gears only to get them to 2nd. Trust me you will soon be re-building that 915.

spence88mph -

OK, now I'm confused. You're currently running without an intercooler, as you don't want to mount a wing, but you're signature line says M491. An M491 without a wing?

Also, are you running the stock clutch?

I'm asking because I'm seriously considering doing this mod to my '87, although I'm also keeping my eye out for a good deal on a 930.

FYI, my view of turbo "switch like" performance is also based on my dd - a late 90's Saab turbo, which runs 1.08 bar and comes on rather suddenly and entertainingly at about 2800 - 3000 rpm, but off boost is about what one would expect for a 4 cyl, 9.2:1, dohc motor in a 1370 Kg car.