|
Trying to make my carrera 3.2 FASTER!
Well ill start by explaining what I have done so far. The car is an 88 3.2, it has fabspeed cat delete, K&N drop in filter and 911chips.com chip.
I raced my friends 04 350z which has intake, cat delete and clutch and flywheel package. from a 1st gear roll he would take me by like a car, car and 1/2. From the light I had him till the end of 4th which amazed me and made me so happy :). I was very impressed, but its those rolls that were killing me. What else can be done to these motor for more power with out opening it up. I was thinking of getting the bursch exhaust but i didn't know if i would loose back pressure from having the cat delete and exhaust. Help please, thanks. |
Lose weight...
|
You have pretty much done what you can. You could always spend some dollars on headers and induction. But to get anything worthwhile in the HP it will run into big dollars. Headers maybe not but a better EFI and ITB's or carbs will cost in the $1000's.
Losing weight will make it a fun car to drive, but you always have to consider how much comfort you will lose and how it may affect resale. |
A few things.
1) A 911 is not a dragster. 2) Street racing till the end of 4th? That's very fast for the street. Just take it to the track would you please. |
Ya I'm not looking to spend thousands but ill def look into loosing weight. Where can I start first on that. Like what should i take out which will help my car loose weight.
Also with the exhaust question. Should i get one or should i just keep it stock for back pressure? |
If you have the sports seats you can lose around 70lbs by putting in some light weight ones.
But for the definitive answer on losing weight..try http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/423361-438-lbs-gone-5-days-my-build-story.html It is a comprehensive and excellent description of on how to lose weight and how much. |
Go to a road track. You'll beat any stock 05 350Z. What are you trying to do anyway? Impress someone in a 20 year younger car? The 911 is an icon, you don't own it to drag race.
That said, headers and cams would be next on your list - with an updated chip taking this into account. And loosing weight as everyone has already pointed out. You could also just go buy a 2004 996 turbo, catch up in time and forget about it. George |
Start at the rear of the car. 2you can remove the bumper shocks & exchange for the Euro crush tubes or just toss the whole bumper assembly.
kill the a/c; and any big heavy metal stuff on the motor. get a FG rear deck lid... you have a penalty with the later MY car as it has the heavy G50 in it. If you like the feel of a 915, build up a late 70's Mg cased one for strength and the gear ratios you want and put that in. people will pay good money for a G50. remove the sound absorption material, again starting at the rear toss the heater blowers in ecah footwell and then the one in the rear. look at Shakingjoe's wt. loss thread it is currently active on here |
So what's the weight difference between a G50 and a "late 70's Mg cased one for strength and the gear ratios you want", and what is the net performance gain of losing said pounds that low and centerish on the car? Has anyone ever actually done the switch from G50 to 915? Not trying to be antagonistic, if there really is a significant performance gain for this I'd like to know about it.
|
The "weight penalty" of a G50 is relatively minimal. As Randy correctly states a BUILT mag case 915 would be lighter with optimal gear ratios and the strength and dependability of a G50. But, that would be quite a pricey alternative to sticking with your already strong, reliable, sure shifting G50 that carries a small weight penalty.
My advice as the owner of an 87 G50 Carrera would be: 1. Don't race your friend on the street anymore. If someone crashed, you could end up in prison and lose EVERYTHING. 2. If you are going to keep your Carrera forever, comfort is not an issue, and resale does not matter, strip all the weight you can off that thing. My Carrera lost 400 lbs. It weighs 2,460 lbs. The result is a much more responsive, lively, fast, and noisy car. Good luck. Mike |
Brandon:
A few people have actually weighed and measured a number of G50's. You may want to search posts from Tyson Schmidt. He recorded data from several G50 and 915 cars. I believe Tyson found there was a 15-20 lb difference stock. If your 915 has an oil cooler, the difference is nil. I think there is a lighter flywheel that brings the G50 to about the same weight as a 915. The G50 is a strong transmission that is rated to survive much higher hp and torque loads than a standard 915. Mike |
Thanks Mike, confirms my suspicion. 15-20lbs reduction at that location is pointless. Changing your gear ratios is another story, although Porsche did a pretty damn good job already.
|
Lose weight, take it to the track.
If you're friend starts feeling good because he's faster than a Porsche, remind him your car is 20 years old and that any recent Porsche would gladly have him for breakfast. ( heck, it even doesn't have to be that recent either.) |
Leave the engine alone: install close-ratio gears.
You'll be amazed at the difference,.... :) |
On the engine side:
964 cams will prevent the car from being out of breath after 6000 rpms. A MAF system will yield approx ten more HP... Nice little boost for reasonable amount of money. Light flywheel will make the engine rev faster and contribute to overall weight reduction. |
You guys need to go to some autox's that's where you will shine against the 350z
|
Quote:
|
For drag racing
1) drop weight 2) install an 8:32cwp |
For the G-50 to 915 myth - quoted posts of people that are much smarter than me:
G-50 vs 915 Transmission Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Take your buddy to a DE or autocross. Get some sticky tires. Own the 350z |
Racing on the street to the end of 4th gear? You're an idiot.
|
Jeremy:
Thank you for taking the time to organize the fact based posts from the experts to whom I was referring. This is solid information for G50 Carrera owners that are "weighing" their performance upgrade options. Mike |
I have a stock 3.2, with a 7:31 915 tranny and light flywheel. It's in a 2200 pound 1973 coupe.
I'll gladly take on a 350Z, but only at the track. |
Street racing is kewl
|
For a little bit more on the cheap. Removing everything form the front trunk is 50 lbs. Replacing the 65 lb battery w a 15-20 lb race unit. Take the rear seat backs and lap belt hard ware out for a total of about 100 less weight.
Choosing the right tires can add a small gearing advantage. Stock is about 25" tall. There are tires down to 24" or less that can work on the car. Mich Sport Cup tires are lighter that most but expensive. Adding a second exhaust pipe to the passenger side to mirror the driver side can add up to about 7HP if the chip is matched. Or get a good sport muffler. A freind has a car just like mine but w a Bursh muffler and he gets about 5-7HP more than me on the same dyno on the same day. Make sure your car is well maintained w a clean air filter. Good plugs, wires, and valve adjustment. Then get you car on a dyno, upplug the O2, have them put there wide band 02 in its place and verify your A/F ratios. If not ideal, send them to Steve to get them right. If ya want to spend more, weight reduction and gears as noted are the big ones. A light clutch pack would be nice and will add HP on the dyno. Cams might add a little HP up top but should have lighter valve retainers added and / or up graded springs to match. If you are going to spend much time around 7000rpms you should put stronger rod bolts in as they are a known weak point. SSI headers add a bit around 3000rpms but are smaller than stock so don't add much up top. Then there is the low boost turbo conversion for about 340HP... ;) Just my two cents. |
Quote:
And stop racing on the street before someone gets hurt. |
Sure, a built Mg cased 915 is a "pricey alternative to [a] G50" BUT be careful when calculating the wt. penalty - it is "small" when compared with a late model Al cased 915; but larger when compared with what I stated - a Mg cased 915.
If you race, then you are going to rebuild the trans. eventually anyway. If you drag race, then you are going to rebuild the trans. very soon anyway. If this table formats properly, you will see that the Quoted "only 15-20 lbs." above is WAY WAY off. Try 50 lbs.! Transmission Year Weight (lb) Input Torque max. (ft-lb.) Clutch Plate Dia. (mm) Notes 901 - 1968 75 215 901 1969 148.5 1 215 911 1970-71 225 2 wider gear rings than type 901 915 - early 1972- 125 181 3 rel. to 901, 911 has reinforced bearings, roller bearings, ball bearings; gear shaft spacing increased, wider gears; two shafts supported by six bearings (prior was 4) 915 – w/ pump 275 G-50 1987 1755 221 964 trans 145.5 with oil 993 6 speed trans 145.5 with oil4 1 die-cast housing replaced the earlier sand cast housing, allowing more input torque (Frere, p. 114) 2 “pull clutch” - blade tips of diaphragm spring located in the cover, so pressure plate pushed by blades along a smaller radius, giving better leverage, with less force required by driver to release the clutch (Frere, p. 114) 3 Frere, p. 120 – higher torques can be handled with a reinforced final drive and a pump to circulate oil through a cooler and to spray the most stressed gears and crown wheel and pinion assembly; the 275 ft-lb. figure is for racing where long term wear is not a concern. 4 Excellence, June 1999, p. 28 5 The 1995 993 trans. weighed the same as the previous 5-speed in the 964 at 145.5 lbs (with oil). Excl. April 1994, p. 77. Gearbox casings are thin wall, pressure cast Al; the pinion shaft is gun-drilled, and the ring gear forging has pockets to reduce wt. – P AG says all these are firsts for a production road car. |
Ok, here is an image of the table instead:http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1221583535.gif
- same footnotes apply As you can see, the G-50 is a Porker! |
Randy:
I was off by 5 lbs according to Tyson Schmidt's data. And I clearly stated "I believe Tyson Scmidt found a 15-20 lb difference". I then suggested that Brandon research Tyson's posts to find the exact numbers he came up with. The issue really comes down to what you want to place more stock in, your data table or real world experience and findings from people such as Tyson Schmidt and Peter Zimmerman. I don't know about you Randy, but I think I will stick with what Peter and Tyson have to say. Mike |
All advice has been great, but aking it could be comparable to walking around with blinders on. For the money you will likely spend to top out your car, your friend could bolt a supercharger on his 350Z and you will never touch him in a straight line. He could also remove weight.
If you want a car that is fast given modern day standards, you should just like totally buy a modern car. (Apologies for the jab - but please don't write in common vernacular. It is a sign of poor intelligence) |
Quote:
Again - look at the footnotes on the data table. They give the sources, which are highly reputable. I would also want to see the methodology that others used, and be sure the scales they used are calibrated. The aside you quoted about the Al cased transmissions being stronger than the Mg cased ones is not really true according to what I've seen. It appears the MG cased ones are stronger b/c of the steel bearing /plates used. 2p ag dispensed with those on the Al cased trannys. There is a thread on that somewhere. Another source of data would be to collect a bunch of Porsche's Tech Spec books. If people will post scans of the trans. wts. from various years, I will collate them and tabulate. If people would like to send me an assortment of transmissions, I will be glad to weigh each one accurately on a calibrated scale and then return all the ones I don't want to keep. |
NOS, but don't use it too early or the Z will whoop you.
I learned that from Vin Diesel. |
wanna play "that" game,..get a turbo for starters...
..otherwise , seemingly misguided. As kick7ca alluded,...(that is, top of 4th..) ? Streets? It's JUST NOT about this "redlight stuff".....but a turbo could help with the redlight endeavors... Best, Doyle |
Thanks for all the help.
911st, i like a lot of your advice, I'm prob going to go with some of the things you said in your post. I tried looking for turbo kits but i couldn't find any for the 3.2 motor. I dot plan on doing it anytime soon but i would like to see some of them. |
For 3.2 turbo kits do a search on "protomotive."
Also i know this sounds lame, but check if you are getting full throttle. More than enough drivers out there end up finding out they aren't getting full throttle when they buy a performance chip and it says in the instructions to check full throttle in which case they do and their blown away after it is corrected. In my case, I found out i wasnt getting full throttle. Turned out the ball on the throttle linkage wasn't in the cup on the back of the gas pedal, but just resting in one of the diamond squares. I drove the car like this for 2 years after i bought it in 2006 not realizing. I guess the previous owner sold me the car thinking it "got slow" after he might've fussed with the gas pedal, but me not ever owning one of these before thought it was fast the way it was. Rest assured i was pleasantly surprised once I resolved this issue. If your not getting full throttle then not only will you be slower due to the lack of air and gas entering the engine, but the WOT (wide open throttle) sensor will not click on and default to WOT fuel maps in the chip in the dme. You won't be driving at balls out performance. |
Quote:
Let the guy continue to drag race his car...We need more posts on motor drops and clutch installs:p |
|
I don't always street race the car, for all those people freaking out about it. It was one race I had with a buddy of mine just to see how fast my 3.2 was because i used to have a 350z, pretty much the only time i really raced my car on the street. I don't plan on going out picking street races so please relax.
I just want help on getting more power out of the car. Thanks 911st for the link. If anyone else has any opinions on what to do I would like to hear them. |
Not my cup of tea but I would think the 911 w g50 transmission dose have the makings of a good drag car having 60% of ones weight over the rear wheels.
A LSD would help. For years the Porsche 930's and Turbos posted the fastest 0-60 and quarter mile times in the car mags. |
Quote:
The 911 platform has successfully competed in every motor sport category beyond the common road course. From off-road dirt racing, rallies, hill climbs, land speed records, ice racing, endurance racing, and even drifting. I see drag racing as just another venue that it can compete with the best of them. As for a faster 3.2 - replace it with a 3.6 :) |
Do you REALLY want to make your 911 faster? Really? I mean do you really want to make it faster or are you just saying you want to make it faster? What I would do is sell it and buy a nicely modded 930, SERIOUSLY! Then make it what you want.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:26 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website