What does it all mean?

[Poor-sche Lover]

I know that this isn't really technical, but I've never really found an answer. I figure one of you guys knows. The official name of the corporation is Dr. Ing h. c. F. Porsche AG. Obviously, I know the Dr. and the F. So, what do the rest of the letters stand for. Assuming it's all German, what's the closest translation. I've just been curious, and I am used to sounding silly for asking silly questions.

[scarletbegonias]

I think "AG" is the German equivalent of "Inc."

[tcar]

Aktiengesellschaft, abreviated AG. Means company owned by shareholders.


Similar to AB in Sweden. Hence, SAAB.

Roughly, SA= Swedish Aircraft manufacturing, AB= Company Inc.

[304065]

My car was made when Porsche was still a Kommanditgesellschaft auf Aktien (KG)

[Paulporsche]

I think Ing hc is an honoris causa engineering degree. This is usually a doctorate granted by a university that has waived the usual requirements because the recipient has distinguished himself in that field.

[Paco Anton]

Dr. Ing h. c. F. Porsche AG = Doctor Engineer honoris causa Ferdinand Porsche Inc.

[porschenut]

Originally Posted by Paulporsche

I think Ing hc is an honoris causa engineering degree. This is usually a doctorate granted by a university that has waived the usual requirements because the recipient has distinguished himself in that field.

Correct. Some university, I forget which one, bestowed an honorary doctorate upon Ferdinand Porsche for his engineering accomplishments.

[RWebb]

yes - the F does not stand for Ferd. or Ferry


KG is sorta like a LLC or limited shareholder type co.

[Poor-sche Lover]

Very cool. It just goes to show the wealth of knowledge on this board. I can sleep better at night, now. Thanks.

BTW, I just found that the university was the Vienna University of Technology.

[304065]

Originally Posted by RWebb

yes - the F does not stand for Ferd. or Ferry


KG is sorta like a LLC or limited shareholder type co.

No, KG is like an LP, an LLC is more like a GmbH. In fact, the old manual I read on forming LLCs in the 90s began by saying "The LLC is a triumph of comparative law in action" insofar as we didn't have them before we borrowed the idea from the Germans. Used to do an LP with an S corp GP before then, lots more work.

"Business organizations for $1000, Alex!"

[sig_a]

Wikipedia cut and paste:

Porsche had advanced to Managing Director by 1916 and received the honorary doctorate degree, "Dr. techn h.c." from the Vienna University of Technology in 1917 (hence the "Dr. Ing h.c" in his name, meaning "Doktor Ingenieur Honoris Causa"). Porsche successfully continued to construct racing cars, winning 43 out of 53 races with his 1922 design. In 1923, Porsche left Austro-Daimler after differences ensued about the future direction of car development.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by john_cramer

No, KG is like an LP, an LLC is more like a GmbH. In fact, the old manual I read on forming LLCs in the 90s began by saying "The LLC is a triumph of comparative law in action" insofar as we didn't have them before we borrowed the idea from the Germans. Used to do an LP with an S corp GP before then, lots more work.

"Business organizations for $1000, Alex!"

OK -- I'll take refuge in the "sorta" I added for such contingencies...

[304065]

Originally Posted by RWebb

OK -- I'll take refuge in the "sorta" I added for such contingencies...

Well they are both "Sorta" pass through entities that allow profits or losses to be taxed NOT at the entity level but at the individual tax rates of the partners (or members, in the case of an LLC).

Why is that relevant? Well, limitation of number of shareholders for pass through entities for one thing-- eventually the Porsche business got so big that it outgrew the entity.

This is also why individual income tax rates are important to small businesses, most of which are pass through entities. Pretax earnings are NOT taxed at the corporate rate but are considered to be taxable income to the members (irrespective of whether cash is distributed). Any further on this topic and I'll land in PARF, bye!

Disclaimer: the above is NOT tax advice

[Paulporsche]

Still don't know what "PARF" is

[RWebb]

one more john - what about voting -- i thought the p family members got 'shares' and voted them...

if true, isn't more llc-like? disclaimer: i only took one bus. law class and only so i could veil pierce polluters....

[304065]

Randy,

Porsche is now an SE:

The Porsche’s Extraordinary General Meeting on June 26, 2007 was the starting point for the Porsche Automobil Holding SE. Shareholders of the Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG voted unanimously in favor of the operating activities of Porsche AG becoming the responsibility of a hundredpercent subsidiary in accordance with the provisions of the Transformation Act, of adopting a controlling and profit transfer agreement between the holding company and the operating subsidiary, and also of transforming the holding company into a European Company, a so-called Societas Europaea (SE). The name 'Porsche Automobil Holding' was also unanimously approved. The company’s headquarters is in Stuttgart.

The decision to transform the company into an SE follows on from the fact that this is a modern form of company with an international focus, which will provide the prerequisites for the ongoing development of the Porsche Group. The supra-national legal status of an SE not only requires the creation of an open and international corporate culture, but also offers the opportunity to keep a Supervisory Board with twelve members, which thus far has proven to be an ideal number.

The SE was inscribed in the trade register on November 13, 2007. This required a draft final balance report from Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG for July 31, 2007, which was finalized by the Supervisory Board the day before the registration. From a legal point of view, Porsche Automobil Holding SE and the former Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG are one and the same legal entity. This means the change in corporate form to become an SE entailed no transfer of assets and liabilities. Nevertheless, the company received a new registration number with the Stuttgart District Court when it became a SE. All shareholders of the former Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG became shareholders in Porsche Automobil Holding SE after the change in corporate form.

And the family members are on the supervisory board:

The Supervisory Board of Porsche Automobil Holding SE met on July 24 and 25, for its constitutive session. The Board appointed Dr Wolfgang Porsche to the position of Chairman; his Deputy is Porsche’s Chairman of the Supreme Works Council Uwe Hück. Wolfgang Porsche is an associate partner in Porsche Automobil Holding SE and also Chairman of the Supervisory Board of the subsidiary, Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. Uwe Hück is also a member of the Supervisory Board of Porsche AG.

The first decision taken by the new Supervisory Board was to appoint Dr Wendelin Wiedeking to the position of Chairman of the Board of Management of Porsche Automobil Holding SE. Holger P. Härter was appointed Deputy Chairman of the Board as well as Chief Financial Officer in charge of the Financial Division. Both men will retain their respective functions within Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.

The employer representatives on the twelve-member Supervisory Board of Porsche Automobil Holding SE are the same as those previously on the Board of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG before separation and conversion into an SE. The employee representatives were named in the agreement on co-determination.

Dr. Wolfgang Porsche
Diplom-Kaufmann
Chairman

Uwe Hück*
Head of the works council of the Group
Head of the works council at Zuffenhausen and Ludwigsburg
Deputy Chairman

Hans Baur*
Diplom-Ingenieur
Trade union secretary

Prof. Dr. Ulrich Lehner
Chairman of the management board
and personally liable shareholder of Henkel KGaA

Wolfgang Leimgruber*
Director of bodyshop/paintshop

Dr. techn. h.c. Ferdinand K. Piëch
Diplom-Ingenieur ETH

Dr. Hans Michel Piëch
Attorney at law

Dr. Ferdinand Oliver Porsche
Subsidiary management

Hans-Peter Porsche
Ingenieur

Hansjörg Schmierer*
Trade union secretary

Walter Uhl*
Head of the works council Weissach

Werner Weresch*
Automotive mechanic member of the works council

Dr.-Ing. Wendelin Wiedeking
Chairman of the Executive Board

Holger P. Härter
Diplom-Volkswirt
Finance and Controlling
Deputy Chairman of the Executive Board

[RWebb]

sorry - i meant back when it was a kg...

Originally Posted by RWebb

one more john - what about voting -- i thought the p family members got 'shares' and voted them...

if true, isn't more llc-like? disclaimer: i only took one bus. law class and only so i could veil pierce polluters....