Whale tail / original equipment??

[low944]

What cars were the tail / whale tail on originally? I see so many SC's and Carrera's with them on it. At first I thought they were only on the turbo?

[the]

It depends on what tail you are talking about.

SC's were available from the factory with various tails over the year.

Of course, the Carrera often came from the factory with the ubiquitous "Carrera tail."

This has been discussed before, but I do not believe that the Turbo tail was ever fitted to non-Turbo cars at the factory. IMO they look ridiculous on narrow bodied cars, way too big and bulky and completely overpower the rear end visually.

Turbo tail =

[ChkbookMechanic]

I have a factory turbo tail on my Carrera - as to if it was on there when the car was new or not, I don't know. However, I like the turbo tail on the narrow body cars... it is all personal preference.

[low944]

I think they are too big for the narrow body as well. Is the "carrera tail" much smaller?

[the]

yes, it's a lot less bulky.

[austin552]

[the]

none of the tails give any downforce. And people put tails on their street porsches for looks, really nothing more. The aero difference between a Turbo tail and a Carrera tail at 70 mph is nothing. No one takes corners in their street porsche at 100 mph.

[84_Carrera]

Well I have a small issue with the "corners" comment, in that it implies that's the only reason for the tail.

My high-speed stability (60-120, we'll say, "on the track" of course, wink wink) improved noticeably after replacing the decklid with one with a Carrera tail, and adding the chin spoiler. I realize that I've added drag & weight with the additions, but all in all I'm fine with that, given I no longer feel like I'm driving a 60's beetle in crosswinds.

It took me awhile to get used to the Carrera tail look on my '84. In the end, I'm a-ok with the tail, though I think a Duck, or maybe the early turbo / IROC styles are more attractive. The Tea Tray does nothing for me, and I think the 964-on pop-up spoilers are just blah (my opinion only).

[the]

You must be more sensitive than me. I've had lots of 911s, some with spoilers, some without, and have never noticed any difference in street driving, even in Calif. where you can hit 90 mph pretty easily on stretches.

Or even the occasional

[88911coupe]

Just make sure you have the front spoiler if you add the rear...not good to ONLY add the rear, although I think the other way around is okay. I did read (can't recall where though) that the factory TURBO/Tea Tray spoiler could be ordered on the regular Carrrera, but I don't think they look as good as the whale tail. For some reason the bigger tails look great on a true Turbo, or Turbo look car.

[bkreigsr]

I don't think the original tails were designed to create downforce, but rather negate and cancel the inherent rear lift at speed.
Bill K

[low944]

Originally Posted by bkreigsr

I don't think the original tails were designed to create downforce, but rather negate and cancel the inherent rear lift at speed.
Bill K

did you just contradict yourself in this quote??

[gtc]

Originally Posted by low944

did you just contradict yourself in this quote??

No. According to the diagram that has floated around before, there is still a net "lift" force on the car. The tails negate some, but not all, of the lift from the 911's inherent wing shape.

[gtc]

Here you go. There is some good info if you click though to this thread.

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

[austin552]

Ok, here are some stats on the aerodymnamics of the 'Duck tail' and the 'tray' Carrera wing.

Info is from Paul Fre're's book "Porsche 911 Story"

The tests were done by Porsche in a wind tunnel and are as follows.

Test car was a 'G series' big bumper car. ('74-'89)

With the Carrera wing and the chin spoiler at max speed Total lift (Cl) is reduced from 397lbs to 38lbs, and total Drag (Cd) is REDUCED by 2%.(This is because the air stays closer to the surface of the car at the rear for a longer period of time, and less turbulance is caused, this is the reason why the roof of the 935's was raised up.)
Rear lift only: goes from 276lbs to 29lbs

With the Duck tail only rear lift info is in the book, and is as follows: Lift is reduced from 276lbs to 68lbs (This is a 70% reduction!)

I have an '81 car and installed the chin spoiler first and drove the car for a couple of months. (Couldn't afford to do the wing all in one shot.) Just the chin spoiler made a difference in stabilty at speeds of 75 and up. Especially on long sweeping freeways, the nose of the car remained more stable going over undulations in the road.

I later installed the wing, what a difference again! The rear calmed down and the car is much more stable. I regularly exceed 100mph in the car, and often run it flat out for 5-10 minutes at a time. (My car is also lowered to approx. European height)

[robert walsh]

I was not a fan of the whale tail, looked forever for the ideal 911SC, ofcourse it had the whale tail and also was a damn rag top, fell in love with the color combo of paltinum over cork with a black top. It is lowered to 25" at the arch front and back, I'm telling you it was "not' what I was looking for but when I went and saw it I had to buy it, it looks perfect to me, especially with the top down and the boot on. Back to the tail, I have no idea if does anything at all, but it is rock stable at a buck and a quarter.

[imcarthur]

One thing to note: The Turbo Tail they refer to is the early Turbo Tail rather than the later 'Tea Tray' Turbo Tail which they refer to as the 3.3 Turbo. The early one was very similar to the Carrera Tail or 'Whale Tail'.

This is an early one:



Ian

[relayswitcher]

This is an original factory tail from '76 -77 3.0L engine. The larger grille houses the are cond. condenser cooler unit to get air flow, and the smaller grille is to let air into the engine to make up for where the AC condenser limited it from coming in. So it IS very functional, not just for show. And no one wants to hurt the feelings of those who put tails on cars that have no business having one, no more than MONSTER size seats in pre '74 Porsche cars. It's just wrong as far as purists go. Although I believe in subtle changes that add to the cars.
My year came with this tail and is the year tail for this care, but I put real German SC flares on the back only so I could run decent looking 16 incher rubber all around. This particular tail had a insignia that read "Carrera3.0". Hard to find today and was lost at paint so the "Carrera" on it now is only because it fit the holes and looks nice. And the stone guards are what they are made for. R.

[1974carrera]

Originally Posted by relayswitcher

This is an original factory tail from '76 -77 3.0L engine. The larger grille houses the are cond. condenser cooler unit to get air flow, and the smaller grille is to let air into the engine to make up for where the AC condenser limited it from coming in...

It's just the opposite of this. On the early whaletails, the A/C condenser is mounted under the small grill and there is no condenser under the big grill. Also, there is a duct inside the early original whaletail such that when the tail is closed, the duct "connects" the A/C condenser/small grill to the upper half of the engine fan insuring positive airflow through the small grill and condenser

There are two sizes of secondary grills in these early whaletails. In the picture Ian posted, the secondary grill is the larger size, characteristic of the 1977 whaletail. The 1976 whaletail uses a secondary grill that is much smaller.

[porschenut]

The SC never had a whale tail, it had a tea tray.

Whale tail cars: 76-79 turbo, 84-89 Carrera, 964 RSA.

Tea tray cars: 911 SC (all years), '80-'94 turbo.

Not sure about RoW cars however.