Should I buy a 911 that has been tracked? Help!

[spsfiend]

First and foremost, thanks for the great feedback!!!

Some additional details:
*1987 911, with 147K miles
*Has 1979 911 Turbo brakes, steel lines and '79 turbo flares
*18" kenesis rims, new tires
*Adjustable swaybars & struts, shocks etc (suspension is done & done right)
*Has the poly bronze bushings etc
*B&B exhuast
*Custome air intake
*Has been expertly maintained; top end refresh at 100k miles
*Engine looks nice and dry. No leaks at all
*Recaro seats - no original seats , but I realize that I would not be buying this 911 for originality. It would be because I personally like how it looks and it will run great for a long time
*Interior needs work but something I could redo myself
*Headlights are cracked figured I could replace the H5s for H4s for about $500
*Rear rotors probably need to be replaced
*Front are okay but need to prob redo the springs etc in the pad because they are making noise.
*No A/C but all the lines are still in and capped off. It will cost my to replace the condenser and compressor but I was planning on doing the a/c upgrade just not right away.

The last major thing I need to weigh out is that the car has major road rash so if I buy it I would definitely re-paint at some. I mean from two car lengths away, the paint looks great, but from closer it has road rash on the front and fender flares from the tracks.

So I guess the decision i need to make is whether to buy this car and worry about paint later but everything else is pretty much done with the car (suspension etc)

Or keep looking and find a cleaner car and do the turbo flares myself and the supension, rims etc etc.

The guy is asking for 20K

I have been looking around for the past several months and I know there are a lot of cars out there for that price range. I figured I would make him an offer taking into consideration the things that I need to replace or fix.

Could someone give me a rough est of what it would cost to paint a car? I know pricing can vary depending how nice but I am looking for a rough idea of a decent same color re-paint.

Thanks so much gang!

[spsfiend]

Oops, left out a couple more details: I intend for this car to be my Daily Driver. Me and a more knowledgeable friend checked it out and drove it. He believes it's a solid car. It rides surprisingly smooth on the freeway considering the suspension set up and lowered stance. So I see no issues with me driving it to work and back everyday.

Whereas currently I do not have plans to take the car to a track, I am sure down the line and as my time is free'd up I would consider going For decision making purposes I would have to lean towards me ust using it as a daily driver.

Thanks!

Gerry

[Porsche_monkey]

I would be hesitant to use that car as a daily driver, just because of age and mileage. Having said that my 84 has more miles and years on and it is totally reliable.

And I would be more concerned about the maintenance and 'fixing up costs' than the track issue. Occasional tracking is of no concern to me.

But you could easily have $5,000 in fix-ups on that car before you know it. At $20,000 I would really lean towards looking elsewhere. That does not sound like a 'deal' in this economy.

[GothingNC]

$20k seems a bit high from the description.

Have you checked this one out?

Immaculate RoW 85 Carrera 3.2 Coupe with CA BAR sticker, Black/Black.

[Hobby Logger]

I would not buy that car from your description unless I was looking for a track car, you can buy a real nice daily driver for 20K today the way the Porsche market is, just take you time and find the right car for you.

[Tsunamiboy]

A halfway decent paint job can start at $5,000 and go up from their if you have other issues (rust, weather stripping, glass etc). Interior can cost as well??? I'd keep shopping, you will know when you have found the right Porsche.

[ted]

Originally Posted by spsfiend

First and foremost, thanks for the great feedback!!!
, new tires
Adjustable swaybars & struts, shocks etc (suspension is done & done right)

done right?
If it's got 3 degrees of camber for r-rated tires your street tires are going to burn off the inside edges in 10k miles.
Car sounds 90% track/10% street, and no close ratio gear box?
Size t bars?
All that hot rod stuff is little to no gain when street/canyon carving.
The black one is a much better date car.
Heater, wiper, radio not important?

bump for a cheaper race car.
POC V4 - PCA II Car For Sale

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Something that nobody seems to have mentioned: What do you mean by "a track car"? A racecar? Or a car that goes to lots of track days and DEs? Big difference. I suspect you mean the latter, since I can't imagine anybody actually racing a car that can be sold for street use. And track-day/DE use varies. Certainly you can abuse a 911 during track days, trying to speed-shift and red-haze stuff like that, but a lot of us treat our cars with relative care during track days. If nothing else, those of us without trailers know we have to drive them home or bum a ride...

[diverdan]

Sounds like a fair amount of money was spent to make it handle better ON THE TRACK and little was spent to make it a cherry street ride. Might be reasonable if one has the same goals for the car. Turbo flares are cool on an RS or a turbo, otherwise who needs the boy racer stuff on the street! For a street ride, I'd say move on.. IMnotsoHO

Diverdan

[spsfiend]

The car I am looking at is not a total track car. It's street legal, the guy put the cat back on and got it smog checked. It the type of car you can drive to the track with and it's set up more for like autocross. It has the battery kill switch etc.

Let me ask you guys this. How much do you believe is a reasonable offer. I agree 100% that 20k is too much as there is just way too much competition at this price range. I have seen true track cars for less than 15K and super clean stock 911s for 18-21K. This car is not super clean nor is it quite a "track" car.

Yes, some of the components this guy has put on the car are expensive: $6K custom Kineses rims, Porsche turbo calipers,rotors, flares, exhaust, intake, new and custom mapped ECU, fully adjustable suspension, etc but it is hard to expect to build that into the price especially in this market.

What would you offer if you were seriously considering the car?

[spsfiend]

Here's a picture. Thanks for the support!

[spsfiend]

The "thing" hanging off the front (and rear bumper) is a toe strap. Most of you will already know that but I could not figure it out until I saw the car in person LOL

[petevb]

Track cars live a hard life. I purchased a previously tracked 911 with many of the same goodies you've got, also very well maintained. When we pulled apart the rear suspension we found cracking on the frame we needed to weld up, etc. This was somewhat expected, and I bought the car because it had most of the parts I would have added anyway at a fraction of the cost of buying them new. Would you really want to add all the parts he's got on this car if you bought the base car? I suspect many of them would be overkill for what you're doing, but you're paying a premium for them and you're getting a car that's been more abused than a street car. I think this should go to someone who also wants to track/ DE it, and you should find a clean street car...

[spsfiend]

Update - Car was tracked about 6 weekends per year. Received detailed maintenance history for last three years...

[rnln]

147k miles?... umm... mine is also an 87, has wide body, and bigger wheels too, but a lot lower on mileage, around 70k+. I won't sell it for $20k even if the market price comes below it. If I sell it, I would think it should worth at least $25k or more, just a thought. So, do you think 70k miles worth $5k or more? I would think it worth more. Remember, the engine is the most important part in a car. Just a very personal thought.

[Noel]

Originally Posted by GothingNC

$20k seems a bit high from the description.

Have you checked this one out?

Immaculate RoW 85 Carrera 3.2 Coupe with CA BAR sticker, Black/Black.

Wrong. THe brakes alone are worth $4-5K. The wheels are worth another $1.5-$1.7K.

The fact is that track cars are maintained better. I track my car all the time and have replaced all kinds of parts just to be safe (Before they have failed). On a street car, guys wait until things break. That said, I personally won't make this my sole daily driver. These cars are not nearly as safe as a modern car with Crumple zones, ABS and Airbags.

[JeremyD]

Originally Posted by chrisp

Track car is better assuming it's had maintenance and servicing. I agree that the average track car has more maintenance done to it and is therefore a better car. Most street cars are driven with service only done when there's an issue. A track car will most likely have had all wear items replaced.

In my experience tracking a car helps sorts it out. A car that has been tracked 2-3 times will only have the most serious issues brought to light (clutch, engine, bakes, etc). A car that's seen a season or two has had almost every nut and bolt touched.

+100

And I wouldn't make any sweeping generalizations. I know my car is mechanically better being tracked. I know of several cars that cosmetically are in great shape and are tracked. Each car is an individual. Each car considered needs to be looked at independently. Get a PPI on any car you consider. I'd rather buy a car that's been tracked routinely than one's that's sat.

[spsfiend]

Update #2: Went through the service records. Many of you guys are right. LOT's of money spent checking every single item on this car. Bolt's, bearing's bushings, rotors, checking lines, mounts (re-enforcing mounts), bearing's brakes list goes on and on. The car has "Charlie" swaybars which are real hard to come by these days too. From 2005 to 2008 I totaled up $26K. This includes the Intake Manifold being ported and polished and many more items over and above just routine maintenance. I saw from the work orders that this car was thoroughly inspected and prepped each time before a track weekend. It's actually stated in the work orders.

This $26K does not even count the 930 metal fender flares/body work/paint nor the rims and brand new tires. It's shocking that there is easily $40K spent on the car and that does not even include the actual price of the car.

[petevb]

Originally Posted by spsfiend

Update #2: Went through the service records. Many of you guys are right. LOT's of money spent checking every single item on this car. Bolt's, bearing's bushings, rotors, checking lines, mounts (re-enforcing mounts), bearing's brakes list goes on and on. The car has "Charlie" swaybars which are real hard to come by these days too. From 2005 to 2008 I totaled up $26K. This includes the Intake Manifold being ported and polished and many more items over and above just routine maintenance. I saw from the work orders that this car was thoroughly inspected and prepped each time before a track weekend. It's actually stated in the work orders.

This $26K does not even count the 930 metal fender flares/body work/paint nor the rims and brand new tires. It's shocking that there is easily $40K spent on the car and that does not even include the actual price of the car.

This is all good news. However remember to consider how much of that work is actually valuable to you. Charlie bars are very cool, but complete overkill for a street car. Meanwhile things you do care about (paint) will need to be worked on at significant expense. Maybe you could sell some bits to offset the costs?

Which of the parts of that car do you really like/ would you buy if you were building the car yourself?

[spsfiend]

If $ was not a limiting factor I would love to do all the suspension work. Realistically though, I could never afford, in the near term, to spend that kind of cash on suspension work.

I really love the wide fenders/ turbo look and if I were to buy a "Stock" 911 I would want at some point to spend the $ to get metal flares, do the body work and paint. That alone is going to be costly though. I estimate 6K - 8K???

So the way I see it, if I buy this car I will get all the suspension work and I will just need to re-do the paint at some point down the line. I say down the line because I can more than live with how the paint currently is and be happy. I could spend time and some $ fixing smaller cosmetic things.

Anyone have a wide body 3.2 911 for sale in CA? That could be an alternative too But I have had a hard time finding one that is not salvage title or a factory wide body which commands a much higher price.