Ride height.. (been searching so dont kill me)

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 07:24 AM

Well I have searched and my 76' doesnt have the two bolts right near the torsion bar on the control arm. So does that mean I cant adjust?

My car is darting all over the place and I thought Id START with ride height.. I measure from floor to top of wheel wheel:

LF: 26 1/8"
RF: 26 3/16
LR: 27"
RR: 27 1/16

This, based on what I have read is completely stupid. What characteristics would one guess a 76 would have with these settings? I know the front should be 1/2" HIGHER than the rear so... this is obviously some hack mechanic (and I use the word mechanic loosely).

I also lock tires under hard braking so my weights are all screwed up.

I have a ton of experience setting race cars up so be technical if you wish to.

Mainly I just want to know how the hell I adjust the rear because everything I read here looks for those two bolts and a 24mm or 36mm nut.. which I dont have anywhere.. I dont think anyway..

Also.. I donbt see any spacers in the front as far as I can tell that are supposed to be on USA cars..

Shocks are Koni.. rears are adjustable.. I wonder what those are set to

I'm going for ride quality NOT ricer slam (gaaag) .. so I was thinking Id just rid myself of the USA bumper settings.. if that makes sense.

Paulporsche · 11-20-2008, 07:59 AM

From an aesthetic standpoint I like to go w/ the rears being set @ a height = to the dimension of the dia of the tires. This actually puts it just slightly higher than the top of the tire, since the tire flats @ the bottom. Then I like to see the fronts about 5/8" higher than that.

Paulporsche · 11-20-2008, 08:04 AM

Here's what it looks like.

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulporsche

From an aesthetic standpoint I like to go w/ the rears being set @ a height = to the dimension of the dia of the tires. This actually puts it just slightly higher than the top of the tire, since the tire flats @ the bottom. Then I like to see the fronts about 5/8" higher than that.

Were you answering someone elses question?

I said specifically I dont give a rats butt about how it looks. I want it to handle like it came from fritz.

Paulporsche · 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calling911

Well I have searched and my 76' doesnt have the two bolts right near the torsion bar on the control arm. So does that mean I cant adjust?

My car is darting all over the place and I thought Id START with ride height.. I measure from floor to top of wheel wheel:

LF: 26 1/8"
RF: 26 3/16
LR: 27"
RR: 27 1/16

This, based on what I have read is completely stupid. What characteristics would one guess a 76 would have with these settings? I know the front should be 1/2" HIGHER than the rear so... this is obviously some hack mechanic (and I use the word mechanic loosely).

I also lock tires under hard braking so my weights are all screwed up.

I have a ton of experience setting race cars up so be technical if you wish to.

Mainly I just want to know how the hell I adjust the rear because everything I read here looks for those two bolts and a 24mm or 36mm nut.. which I dont have anywhere.. I dont think anyway..

Also.. I donbt see any spacers in the front as far as I can tell that are supposed to be on USA cars..

Shocks are Koni.. rears are adjustable.. I wonder what those are set to

I'm going for ride quality NOT ricer slam (gaaag) .. so I was thinking Id just rid myself of the USA bumper settings.. if that makes sense.

Funny, I don't see any mention of your not caring how it looks...

In fact, you seem sure about what look you don't want (ricer slam).

Sorry if I offended you.

MotoSook · 08:36 AM

The '76 does not have the adjustable spring plates, so you can't adjust the ride height without re-indexing the torsion bars.

The front should be lower than the rear (contrary to your post) to give it proper rake which will help tranfer some weight to the front and provide some aerodynamic advantage.

Measuring ride height at the fender is a bit unscientific as the measurement uncertainty is large. You'll want to corner balance the car using scales or some other means after you re-index the rear suspension. The fronts are easy to adjust for height and corner weight.

You can also use spring plates from a 78 to 86 911 (edit '87-'89 have wont' work on your '76) to replace the non-adjustable spring plates. Used, they usually sell for about $150pair.

Edit: Also there should be no wheel spacers on the car.

Edit 2: you can set it to Euro height with upgraded torsion bars, bushings, shocks and anti-sway bars. That will give you the handling you're looking for. Alignment is 0-1/8" toe out in front, 0-max possible camber in front with both toe and camber depending on your intended use. Rear is zero toe or a small negative toe (1/8") with 1-3 degrees of camber depending on your use.

My Carrera set up for aggresive track use (but used on the street) has -1.5 degree camber up front, -2 deg in rear, slight toe out in front and slight toe in in rear. Ride height is approx (key word) 24.5 inch in rear and 24" in front. On the corner scale it balances out to +/- 50 lbs of where I want it. I also have larger t-bars, upgraded shocks and a rear adjustable sway bar. Handling is like it's on rails.....

Paulporsche · 11-20-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souk

Edit: Also there should be no wheel spacers on the car.

Souk,

Why this comment? Is this because he is going for good handling only? Are you recommending no spacers for daily drivers?

ossiblue · 08:30 AM

edit: Souk posted before I completed typing--he's already said it all.

Your car does not have adjustable spring plates, that's why you cannot locate the adjusting bolts. You will need to reindex the rear torsion bars to lower the rear, and reset the height adjustment bolts on the front (much easier).
The actual ride height that should restore your car to the performance you wish is based on measurements between torsion bar centers and axel centers, but close approximation can be reached with the wheel well measures.
Bottom line: If you continue to search, you will find many tech posts about height and adjustment procedures--many specifics that I could never post here. In addition, corner balancing is also a must, and I'd suggest finding an expert in 911 suspensions lowering and balancing your car if you don't feel up to it.

MotoSook · 11-20-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calling911

Also.. I donbt see any spacers in the front as far as I can tell that are supposed to be on USA cars..

This is why, Paul. He has a 76 911S, not a Turbo. Spacers are fine for daily or track use.

Paulporsche · 11-20-2008, 08:36 AM

Got it. Thanks, Souk.

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 08:43 AM

Guys, I meant spacers on the front shocks.. which I guess were on USA cars. I am in the garage right now and decided out of impatience to dissasemble.. I now see there is no adjustment.. just toe.

So... looks like I jsust need to reindex.. I dont know why someone mentioned replacing the tortion bars.. there is no need for that.

Now if I could only get the damn swing arm to release from the torsion bar splines.. any hints? Tried a crow bar and a hammer and some other things I will not mention.

I figure I'll move it one or two splines.. and see..

and yeah I got it backwards.. front lower by 1/2" it looks like I am probably front heavy with the settings I have now.

Looks like my bushings are not real happy either.. some of the material has transfered to the torsion hold down plate.. I dont suppose these things will turn for me so I can rotate 180 degrees... I really dont need to be spending money right now.. and I dont suppose these bushings are cheap. But since I am here... kinda silly to leave them.

As far as the camber.. Im not looking for aggressive handling.. putting camber into it will make it dart around even worse.. I just want to go stock and have a nice friendly car.

calling911 · 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulporsche

Here's what it looks like.

Nice look.

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossiblue

edit: Souk posted before I completed typing--he's already said it all.

Your car does not have adjustable spring plates, that's why you cannot locate the adjusting bolts. You will need to reindex the rear torsion bars to lower the rear, and reset the height adjustment bolts on the front (much easier).
The actual ride height that should restore your car to the performance you wish is based on measurements between torsion bar centers and axel centers, but close approximation can be reached with the wheel well measures.
Bottom line: If you continue to search, you will find many tech posts about height and adjustment procedures--many specifics that I could never post here. In addition, corner balancing is also a must, and I'd suggest finding an expert in 911 suspensions lowering and balancing your car if you don't feel up to it.

Kicking myself for "throwing in" my scales with my last race car. Doh!

MotoSook · 08:54 AM

JP - I mentioned upgrading T-bars as an option to upgrading to suspension. Of course it is not necessary if all you want to do is lower the car. From the sound of things, you might be better to spend $130 bucks on polygraphite bushings (search for their installation tips). With worn bushings you're not going to improve your ride quality or handling to it's full potential with stock parts.

I will add that folks are posting to help, but your posts could use some refinement for content and tone. It would attract more useful contribution to your thread.

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souk

JP - I mentioned upgrading T-bars as an option to upgrading to suspension. Of course it is not necessary if all you want to do is lower the car. From the sound of things, you might be better to spend $130 bucks on polygraphite bushings (search for their installation tips). With worn bushings you're not going to improve your ride quality or handling to it's full potential with stock parts.

I might mentioned that folks are posting to help, but your posts could use some refinement for content and tone. It would attract more useful contribution to your thread.

Yeah I am a bit of a jackass aren't I. This economy has me a it unfurled. If thats a word.. not sure.

Polygraphite huh? Im a BIG proponent of rubber. I used to spend quite a bit of time around a race car engineer and he would laugh his but off at all the poly bushings.. his point was it covered up other overlooked problems and weaknesses and even if it didnt the rubber was there intentionally so components had some give.. ie. dont want to break a sway bar mount? Use rubber. the 1/8" less movement is not going to really matter.. made sense to me.. always ran rubber and nearly always won.

thanks for the help.. sorry for the tone. I'll look into bushings and continue beating the hell out of the thing until it comes off.. I thought it would slide right off.. weird.

MotoSook · 09:23 AM

I forgot to post about getting the t-bar out of the springplate (I hope that's what you meant). Try to spray some penetrating oil into the carrier tube towards the end of the t-bar. There is surely rust on the spline mating surface. If you are patient it may work loose with penetrating oil.

An alternative is to drill a small hole in the pressed in cap of the springplate/carrier tube. You want to drill maybe a 1/8" hole, so you can insert a punch and hammer the t-bar out of the carrier splines. Used this method in combination with the penetratiing oil.

Rubber versus polygraphite bushings.....an interesting debate better for another thread

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souk

I forgot to post about getting the t-bar out of the springplate (I hope that's what you meant). Try to spray some penetrating oil into the carrier tube towards the end of the t-bar. There is surely rust on the spline mating surface. If you are patient it may work loose with penetrating oil.

An alternative is to drill a small hole in the pressed in cap of the springplate/carrier tube. You want to drill maybe a 1/8" hole, so you can insert a punch and hammer the t-bar out of the carrier splines. Used this method in combination with the penetratiing oil.

Rubber versus polygraphite bushings.....an interesting debate better for another thread

Yeah thanks for not going there on the rubber vs. poly thing.. would have messed up this thread.

Hmm lets see.. (just spent 20 minutes staring at the spring plate stuck on the torsion bar... ummm.. I dont see how I can spray oil into the tube at this point.. so that one confuses me. I did read about drilling hole.. but can you really pound inwards very far? Id be afraid Id damage something inside the tube... but.. if you say so.. this is all on you.

what sucks is the 911s trim over the torsion hole cover.. I have opened the preverbial can o' worms once again.. at 43 you;d think Id just drop this off and have it done.. I guess done right never happens so thats why I do this.

Okay.. I'll try the oil and then the drill.. Im thinking the drill is going to be the only way.. I have a puller but I hate to screw that nice end cap up..

thanks

MotoSook · 11-20-2008, 09:59 AM

Did you remove the rocker covers? You have to if you haven't. It's be tough to get the t-bar carrier to move much without the rocker cover removed and the cover plate on the sheet metal off.

If you have the rocker cover off, you should be able to slide the carrier tube through the hole in the sheet metal to get a spray stray between the t-bar and the carrier tube.

As for hitting the t-bar with a punch, you'll have to support the t-bar and springplate so that the inboard end is not in the splined "home" of the inboard end of the t-bar.

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 10:13 AM

[QUOTE=Souk;4314893]Did you remove the rocker covers? You have to if you haven't. It's be tough to get the t-bar carrier to move much without the rocker cover removed and the cover plate on the sheet metal off.

If you have the rocker cover off, you should be able to slide the carrier tube through the hole in the sheet metal to get a spray stray between the t-bar and the carrier tube.

As for hitting the t-bar with a punch, you'll have to support the t-bar and springplate so that the inboard end is not in the splined "home" of the inboard end of the t-bar.[/QUOT

Im sorry but this is making no sense to me at all. There is probably 10" between the cap of the spring plate and inside the rocker. So I dont see how it would help except to allow me to stick a drill in there to drill a hole in the end cap.

I have removed the four bolts from the spring plate and that is where it sits.. it will not budge. The torsion bar wont release inside towards the differential either.. so it wont slide out to give me any access.

I do have waynes book and looked it over but I dont see anything there either about this. I'll remove the cover while I wait for hopefully more help. Getting close to taking a picture cuz I am thinking I am not explaining myself well enough.

calling911 · 11-20-2008, 10:35 AM

Its coming out.. at least something is.. either the torsion bar along with the spring plate or just the spring plate. The key was grabbing at the end of the swing arm and shaking violently back and forth. I DO NOT want to take my hole cover off! Id have to tear the whole lower rocker off and the trim! What a pain! Id take it off and leave it off if my car wasnt a crappy tape job respray.. that lower rocker piece Porsche added looks horrible. I guess I am a early guy.

Anyway.. IF its just the spring plate I am in business.. but if its the torsion bar I am scrapping this idea for now.. screw it.. too much work. I have other fish to fry. I thought this was a 3 hour job.. now into hour 5.

For anyone trying to break free the spring plate from the torsion bar.. shake and pull.. if you are out of shape like me you need to take breaks.. and using a crow bar while you shake doesnt work.. it has to wiggle off the spline.. its very very slow.. so shake and shake and shake and you might slowly see it move... keep watching...

Why is this car so high.. did they come THIS high?? Or was somebody thinking offroad? Jeepers. 27" at the rear????