Impact driver for taking off lug nuts question....

[ajmarton]

Thanks for all the great input. How is the Goodyear impact wrench (quality wise) sold at Pep Boys?

Originally Posted by msteele

Craftsman probably will not be able to break free the nuts. I think most people get the Goodyear one sold at Pepboys. Do a search.

I have been using impacts on steel and alloy lugs for the past 15 years on track, street cars and never had an issue. I do what others suggested when putting the nuts on, use low setting then torque to final spec.

YMMV,
Mark

[911pcars]

It seems many remove and replace alloy lug nuts like regular steel versions with no ill-effects. Let me phrase it this way.

What combination of impact wrench, lug wrench, socket and tightening/loosening procedure will result in lug nuts that look like this?





Sherwood

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Guys,

It seems we have apples, oranges and grapes here – a real fruit salid.

There are two types of lug nuts under consideration – aluminum and steel.
There are two types of sockets – steel and soft.
There are two methods of tightening/loosening - impact and hand torque wrench.
Add a ‘torque limiting’ device to the mix.

Steel lugnuts are almost indestructible. They need a high quality (SnapOn Flank Drive) 6-point socket. It is perfectly appropriate to use a high powered impact wrench for loostening. I use mine to tighten also because I have a ‘feel’ to run it up below the 96 ft-lb spec. I ALWAYS do the final tightening (where the nut moves) with a calibrated torque wrench.

The aluminum nuts require a bit more care.

If you have and intend to keep your aluminum nuts in great condition, there are ‘soft’ sockets available from our host. These sockets have a plastic insert that is softer than the aluminum nut. With care, you can off-on your nuts many times without damage. It is very important that there isn’t any dirt between the socket and the nut.

It is perfectly OK to use an air/electric ‘nut runner’. The above 75 ft-lb unit is just fine for that purpose. To break and final torque the nuts should always be done by hand. The nuts should be properly lubricated and always torque to 96 ft-lbs with a calibrated torque wrench.

Part of normal maintenance is removing the wheels, cleaning and re-lubricating the stud threads and the ball surfaces of the wheel and lug nut. It is unreasonable to expect to get a nut off cleanly (without damage or worse) one that has been undisturbed for many years.

There are ‘torque limiting’ devices. These are extensions that have a shaft that acts like a torsion spring. This limits the amount of torque that an impact wrench applies to the socket. These are designed tor the tire shop monkeys who insist on hammering away on a lug nut with a powerful impact wrench.

There are situations where an aluminum lug nut is not willing to come loose at, say, 130 ft-lbs by hand. This is where a deep 6-point steel socket and a powerful impact wrench is necessary. Usually you will need to replace the lug nut.

Lug nuts that are used very often need periodic replacement. Each year the race car gets 20 new steel lug nuts. I regularly clean and lube the stud threads and the entire set of nuts. If a lug nut is ever difficult to spin on with fingers, I replace the nut with new. If it is still difficult, I have a 14x1.5 mm thread die to run on the stud. If that doesn’t fix it, I replace the stud.

There have been many threads discussing various lubricants, etc.

Lug nuts are a VERY important part of our cars and deserve careful attention – not just for athletics.

Best,
Grady

Typical Grady post...Always the last word on proper Porsche mechanical ettiquette! What a wealth of knowledge this guy has!!!
However, in lieu of the 14x1.5 mm thread die, I'd like to recommend a thread chaser, which may be more appropriate in that it is not designed to cut material, but rather to mechanically clean the threads, and push minor rolls or defects back into place. A thread die is designed to cut/produce new threads on blank bar stock.
While running a die over the threads will certainly allow for easy installation and subsequent removal of lug nutz; it does cut the problem threads and therefore effectively reduces their designed strength factor. Basically, if a chaser does not or cannot rectify your problem installing lug nuts by hand, its probably a good idea to replace the offending stud.
One caveat to this post would be with regards to steel lug nut installation. If there is a problem with a lead thread(s). A die can be used to cut the lead thread(s) because steel lug nuts effective holding strength will be only by the threads contacted when the nuts are torqued on the thread area of the studs where material has not been removed by the die. With AL cap nuts this may not always be the case, unless of course, there is a thread relief in the AL cap nuts.

[newms]

I have been using a dewalt 18v impact wrench like this(http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=17809) for a couple of years. It is a life changing tool for me as between autocross, track and street (three sets wheels) I change wheels/tires probably 40-50 times per season. I use steel lugs only and do a final check with high quality torque wrench. With all due respect to Grady, if you aren't using the impact wrecnch to break the lugs, why bother? Get one, but get a tool, not a toy.

[Porsche_monkey]

If you have a bad shoulder and can't use a regular wrench just buy a torque multiplier driver. they come in 4:1 and 12:1. that should work for getting them loose. Tightening is another story...

[vash]

i switched the the steel nuts...i use a milwalkee electric impact.

that original tool with the quarter inch drive is a carpenter's tool right?

[Grady Clay]

Nine9six is exactly correct.

Occasionally I get ‘preachy’ but my intent is to cover some little, simple area thoroughly. These posts get archived. Perhaps someone in 2045 will benefit. The other aspect is to turn this random collection of threads into some more useful form – Pelican Wiki.

One of the best features of this Forum is mistakes and errors get corrected.


I do have a real thread cutting die. It is 40+ years old and has been to every race since the late ‘60s. It is also adjustable so it is spread out to not cut and is tight in a 27 mm socket.

A better choice today is a ‘rethreading’ die (thread chaser) such as in the Craftsman 009-42275 set for $70 or the SnapOn tool TR14150. This will tend to re-form a damaged thread and not cut anything.

You should never use a tool that cuts or damages the root of the thread. This causes a stress point and can lead to failure.


Wheel studs are very purpose-specific hardware. Be very careful when selecting longer or replacement studs. There are aftermarket studs that do not have the ‘class code’ or manufacturer name on the head. There are some that have threads the full length. Some even have ‘cut’ threads. Those are fine for a show car but dangerous on the street and unsuitable for the track.

A proper wheel stud is a forged part and has rolled threads. Only part of the stud should be threaded. While it is tempting to use a fully threaded stud (like the ‘cheepies’), the stud can fail at the root of the thread closest to the ‘head’. I’m looking at an old Factory stud that says “Verbus 10.9” on the head. Only about 60% of the stud has rolled threads.


Another useful tool is a thread file – a file specific for the thread pitch. These are included in that Craftsman set and all the other tool places have them.


Many use an electric ‘nut runner’ to spin lug nuts off & on at the track. This has become common as more people use gloves. I still spin mine on with my fingers – at least a few threads. If someone is an attorney or OBGYN, they probably don’t want to show up at work with fingers like mine.

EDIT: A Factory aluminum lug nut has about 13 complete full threads (not counting the lead-in and last one). There is about 4-5 mm relief inside the cap of the lug nut. This is where the aluminum is machined slightly larger that the 14 mm OD of the stud threads.

Best,
Grady

[2.70Racer]

Sherwood,

"You use an air impact gun to loosen your al. nuts and no lug nut deformity?"

You know the answer.

Of course the black aluminum lug nuts get marked up. Much like the pictures you posted.

That's why I use two sets.

When changing tires I carefully install the freshly painted and buffed up black lug nuts.
The other set is then buffed up and repainted.
Then into a plastic bag for use the next time I change tires and or wheels.
I've not seen the "magic aluminum lug nuts" that aren't marked even a little with installation or removal.
I'm not so anal retentive that I break into a sweat when an air wrench appears.
Used with care and a six point soft socket marks on the aluminum lug nuts are kept to a minimum.
For the concour crowd, do it your own way.

[RWebb]

anyone know about a soft’ socket that Snap-On makes?

It is said to be better than the common plastic-lined ones we all have. But I can't find it in their online catalog.

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by 2.70Racer

Doug, you say...
Of course the black aluminum lug nuts get marked up. Much like the pictures you posted.
That's why I use two sets.
When changing tires I carefully install the freshly painted and buffed up black lug nuts. The other set is then buffed up and repainted.
Then into a plastic bag for use the next time I change tires and or wheels.
I've not seen the "magic aluminum lug nuts" that aren't marked even a little with installation or removal.
Then you say...
I'm not so anal retentive that I break into a sweat when an air wrench appears.

Maybe not...But I suspect you're getting uncomfortably close
Merry Xmas

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

As for the original question that ajmarton posed--post #1--don't bother trying a Craftsman battery-powered wrench. Their torque is nowhere near enough to break free a properly torqued lugnut. I tried. Took the thing back the next day and they laughed when I said there was no way it put out X ft.-lbs. of torque, whatever the rating was, since it couldn't loosen a nut tightened to 95. "Yeah, we know," they said...