993 HEs on 3.2 - Extended use reports

[ncseahawk]

Looking for any and all perspectives, performance reports, audible opinions, etc...

Street driving, Autocross, DE situations

Want to hear from those of you who have done it, Tyson, Ben, ???

Installation problems, challenges, extra bits required...

thanks in advance

[Rob Channell]

I have a stock 85 Carrera motor still running the stock chip although the O2 sensor may not be working which would make me a little rich. I am running the M & K 2 in 2 out muffler and have one side that can be blocked to drop the noise several dB. This old motor made 190 rwhp on a good brake dyno so it makes good power. The dyno guy said that on the other dyno in town it would have been equivalent to 212rwhp(the difference in dyno types). So power is pretty good. My AFRs were good as well but keep my possibly failed O2 sensor in mind.

IMO the sound is great for the track or autocross without being TOO loud. I get complements on it all the time. Our autocross group instituted a 50ft 93dB limit or so and I was able to run both sides open without bing too loud. I took the cap so I could add it between runs to drop it another 8-10dB in case they called me on it. I love the sound although with both barrels open it is a little loud for some of my more uppity neighbors. I plan to try to make the exhaust a little quieter by installing a turbine in the exhaust path sometime in the next several months.

One minus is I still do not have heat yet. It's going to take some more fabrication. I had to cut off one of the HE heat duct connections to get it to mount on my engine. I am certain it can be done, but it will take more time and money. I think Ben was putting together a setup for heat. If I was buying one now I'd try to get it all done at once.

A couple of the nuts are a @#$%^ to install and get tight on the HE with the rotated flanges. I have fairly wide hands and had trouble getting them in there to tighten a couple of the nuts. I ended up getting help from someone with smaller hands and a special tool. We used the Wurth copper plated nuts that were sized right for the exhaust stud but only had a 12mm outside instead of 13mm. The we used a 12mm Snap On ratcheting wrench that had a flex head on the end.

I saw a tool the other day that looked like a ratcheting wrench but had an additional ratchet drive on the end of the handle. If you could get the wrench on the nut and had no room to turn it you could hook up a ratchet driver to the end of the handle and turn the wrench that way. I wish I could remember where I saw it because I was thinking a couple of those might come in real handy.

Just my 0.02. It's worth what you paid and not a penny more. If you lean more towards the autocrosses and the DE's than the Q-tips you'll probably like it.

[Rob Channell]

Gratuitous pics.....because I can. Yes, she's no beauty queen, but she's fun and she's mine.

[JeremyD]

Finally finished my exhaust change - to 993 and MK

[ncseahawk]

So you believe or know this to be an upgrade in terms of RWHP over the stock set-up? How about relative to SSIs?

[JeremyD]

Yes, Steve Wong and Tyson Schmidt experimented with these and the sentiments were much better than stock AND SSI's.

[911st]

JeremyD,

I think you had B&B/Flowmaster. How dose the change to 993 & M&K compare?

Are you close to the same power? Or, did you have to add or take out fuel or see and any indications in the AFR's with the change that can lead you to any opinions or conclusions?

Thx.

[ncseahawk]

Jeremy,

It appears you have heat from these? Did you drive this morning? Was it warm enough. That is about as much heat as I think I will need.

[JeremyD]

No - I have not dyno'd it yet - but from my track experience(s) the end of last year, I don't think I am missing any HP - (I tracked down a 997 driven by an instructor, no slouch - and I am no Mario Andretti)

Did not drive this morning as my car is still on jack stands waiting on wheels from Jeff - but yes, the heat works enough for Florida - it just takes the chill out of the cabin. No - it does not provide enough heat to have the top down on mornings like this - With the stock exhaust HE you could cook a turkey in the cabin.

[ninesixfour]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

Yes, Steve Wong and Tyson Schmidt experimented with these and the sentiments were much better than stock AND SSI's.

What's the pipe size? Also, from your picture it looks like they prevent the valve covers from being removed or is that just the angle of the photo?

[PcarPhil]

Can someone confirm that in order to pull the lower valve covers with the 993 HE's that you must remove the HE's first?

Also can someone provide a link to the Wurth copper plated nuts with the 12mm head?

Finally, can someone provide a link to the 12mm Snap On ratcheting wrench that has a flex head?

Thanks for all the help. After my 3.2 project car is back on the road adding 993 HE's and a M&K muffler are one of the next mods.

[JMA-RUF]

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Also can someone provide a link to the Wurth copper plated nuts with the 12mm head?

Finally, can someone provide a link to the 12mm Snap On ratcheting wrench that has a flex head?

Just following up on this post. Can someone post a link for these Wurth 12mm copper nuts?

Also, is this the Snap On, Flex-head, Ratcheting Wrench used for the 993 HE's?

http://image.snapon.com/international/pdf/boermf712a_npa.pdf

[Rob Channell]

Here's a link for you for the Wurth Copper plated nuts.

Link to Wurth catalog in pdf form
http://www.wurthusa.com/project/media/new_online_catalog_2008/sections/HARDWARE.pdf

These are the ones I used.
Wurth Split Copper Exhaust Nuts (small Hex size)
Wurth Part # 03662

specs: DIN 14440
M8 diameter
1.25 thread pitch
M12 width across flats
8.5mm height


There is also a flange nut style I did not use but is similar. It is noted for BMW use:
Wurth part # 03658
same specs as above except
17mm flange
8.6mm height

[JP911]

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Can someone confirm that in order to pull the lower valve covers with the 993 HE's that you must remove the HE's first?

No, you do not need to remove the HE's to get the valve covers off, but you will need to grind away part of the heater "inlet," which in its complete state will block the covers. You just need to leave enough meat on the exchangers to hold a hose clamp.

[JMA-RUF]

Originally Posted by Rob Channell

Here's a link for you for the Wurth Copper plated nuts.

Link to Wurth catalog in pdf form
http://www.wurthusa.com/project/media/new_online_catalog_2008/sections/HARDWARE.pdf

These are the ones I used.
Wurth Split Copper Exhaust Nuts (small Hex size)
Wurth Part # 03662

specs: DIN 14440
M8 diameter
1.25 thread pitch
M12 width across flats
8.5mm height


There is also a flange nut style I did not use but is similar. It is noted for BMW use:
Wurth part # 03658
same specs as above except
17mm flange
8.6mm height

Awesome! Thanks, Rob

[mb911]

I buy them from winzer for 8 cents each if that helps

[911nut]

Originally Posted by Rob Channell

A couple of the nuts are a @#$%^ to install and get tight on the HE with the rotated flanges. I have fairly wide hands and had trouble getting them in there to tighten a couple of the nuts. I ended up getting help from someone with smaller hands and a special tool. We used the Wurth copper plated nuts that were sized right for the exhaust stud but only had a 12mm outside instead of 13mm. The we used a 12mm Snap On ratcheting wrench that had a flex head on the end.

I saw a tool the other day that looked like a ratcheting wrench but had an additional ratchet drive on the end of the handle. If you could get the wrench on the nut and had no room to turn it you could hook up a ratchet driver to the end of the handle and turn the wrench that way. I wish I could remember where I saw it because I was thinking a couple of those might come in real handy.

My car has the long exhaust studs. The Snap-On tool won't fit. I used a 12 mm deep offset box end wrench with the copper flange nut our host sells sitting in the wrench on it's flange. I has it started on the stud in no time.

If anyone wants to buy a Snap-On wrench PM me.....

[PcarPhil]

What are y'all using for exhaust port gaskets with the 993 HE's?

Also - Ben - have you made any progress on making heat adapters to work with these heat exchangers?

Thanks for the help guys,

[JMA-RUF]

Originally Posted by Kaefer

What are y'all using for exhaust port gaskets with the 993 HE's?

I assume people are using the normal OEM Carrera Exhaust Port Gaskets as shown here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_EXHpip_pg6.htm#item28

The 3.2 heads don't have the groove for the 964/993 exhaust port sealing rings, so I'll be using just the OEM 3.2 exhaust port gaskets as shown on that link above

[JeremyD]

I use the normal 3.2 Carrera exhaust port gaskets and regular 993 HE to muffler OEM Gaskets