2.7 vs 3.6

[enzo1]

what is the weight difference between 964-3.6 & 2.7; engine only, thanks

[RWebb]

what 2.7??? CIS, RS, ??

do search for more

[enzo1]

sorry, the one I have "76 911s, was just obsessing, if my engine, were to blow sky high, What would I do ...3.6 swap or rebuild to 2.7RS, weight is definitely a factor to me, & I haven't done some mods , like ssi ....because they wouldn't work with transplant ...actually , I think what I really want to know is how much horsepower & weight can can a "76 handle without giving up that light responsive feel it has & having to change out a lot of components, I really like it the way it is, just would like a little more horses & the 964 engine looks like better way to get it, so I was asking in a too simplistic way what the weight difference is, thanks for responding...RWebb

[enzo1]

wow, there is a lot of difference, I didn't know how much!

[RWebb]

the wt. differences are mostly in the induction & exhaust systems.

a dollop of wt. was added in the transition from Mg to Al cases (2.7L to 3L SC)

P AG went on a major wt. saving expedition when doing up the 993 motor - I think I collected the info from Frere and Aichele and posted it some time ago....

if your motor blows sky high, you can always swap in a Wankel...

[enzo1]

trying to learn the search thread better, i always do a search 1st , but it says try again , a lot; so I get frustrated & just post what I want to know, lately i've been searching certain knowledgeable persons threads, such as yourself......takes more time but learn a lot, i'm trying to get my mind around the wankel.... naww can't do it, I like nightmares better, other stuff is boring----like golf.... or fishing, mowing the lawn, or HONEY DOs

[RWebb]

for knowledgeable persons, use these terms:

Grady Clay
jpnovak
Sherwood
Bill Verburg
John Walker's Workshop
Steve Weiner

and others...

[enzo1]

I started with John Walkers, almost got through it, Why couldn't he have shop here, I will start from top down, and won't forget yours

[pjh69911]

Randy,
I can't quite figure out your table for a 75-77 911s. Is it 386 or 400 lbs? Paul.

[Bill Verburg]

Here are the factory weights, these are as equipped ready to install w/ all ancillary components inc/ AC, PS, SAI
993RS 487.2 w/ single mass flywheel/clutch/pp
993RS 507 w/ dual mass flywheel/clutch/pp
993 n/vr 510 w/ dual mass flywheel/clutch/pp
993 nvr 492.8 w/o flywheel/clutch/pp
964RS 484 w/ single mass flywheel/clutch/pp
964 C2/4 525 w/ dual mass flywheel/clutch/pp
964 C2/4 507 w/o flywheel/clutch/pp
930 /20/26 483
930 /21/25 485
930 /16/17 441
930 /10 419
930 /03-/06, /13, /15-17 441
930 /07-/09/19 419

mag case engine weight ~25# less than the same in aluminum

trans weight depends on type, material and lsd or open, w/or w/o mounts
901 trans w/ equivalent case material and diff type is ~9-10#s less than 915

here are some that I've weighed using electronic corner balance scales
my mg case 915/44 w/ open diff weighed 95#
my al case 915/67 w/ lsd & cooler weighs 122#
g50/05 w lsd 146#
g50/10 w/lsd 150#
my g50/30 w/ lsd 156#
g50/32 w/ lsd 155.5#

[911st]

Great info!

[kenikh]

Wow, my 2.3ST replica motor looks like it will have the same HP/weight ratio as a 3.6

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by pjh69911

Randy,
I can't quite figure out your table for a 75-77 911s. Is it 386 or 400 lbs? Paul.

I got 2 reported values from sources I thought would give accurate data...

not clear what the source of the variation is...

to add to Bill's post, IIRC the factory spec. for trans. wt. includes the starter - not sure if I recall right but there is an old post on this...

[RWebb]

so... I guess if A/C is std., then it will be included in the wt.

on the old cars, A/C was a dealer installed option, so would likely not be included in the wt.

but if A/C was a factory option.....

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by enzo1

how much horsepower & weight can can a "76 handle without giving up that light responsive feel it has & having to change out a lot of components

Great question. At what point in weight/hp do you change the character of the car?

2.7RS spec sure looks good right now.

[enzo1]

Thats what I was thinking. then you see guys like Bill ,going the swap route, I just wanted to ask the question & see what the BIG dogs think, under my specific application

[Jack Olsen]

The numbers you usually see on the later engines are misleading. With a 3.6, for example, you immediately ditch about 100 pounds when you get rid of the dual mass flywheel, stock exhaust, heater blower and power steering pump for a swap into an earlier car.

Bill Verburg has listed some weights that were more apples-to-apples than the ones you usually see for 'fully dressed' engines.

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

My Carrera 3.0 weighed ~#405 with cis/ssi no muffler and sachs clutch & p/p.

The M64 3.6 that replaced it weighed ~425 with motronic/ssi no muffler, centerforce clutch & p/p sans ac.

A 2.7 with cis/ssi no nmuffler, sachs clutch & p/p was ~390#

A 3.2 with Motronic/oem exhaust with muffler,ac, stock clutch & p/p weighed ~440#

All were weighed with electronic corner balance scales.

It's probably safe to say that the most 911 motors other than the Turbos are within 40 pounds or so of each other when used in the same car.

And as Bill put it:

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

the weights from lightest to heaviest are 2.7, 3.0, 3.2, 3.6 but the range from lighteset to heaviest when similarlay equipped isn't that much @ ~ 40# and no it won't take away for the go cart feel irt will enhance it.

ancillary equipment makes a big difference too, exhaust, pressure plate, intakes etc all vary widely in weight

The aluminum blocks are going to be much more stable than the mg at the cost of a few #s, the torque of the bigger engines is a wonderful thing especially on a street or dual purpose car.

[enzo1]

thanks for the reply ,Jack, LOVE your car, but you have built a rsr, "the gold-plated Porsche", if u will....I don't want to have to change my car to suit that much horse power & weight, in other words I like fun littlle 'sleepers' ,I guess the real ? is: torgue 'which I really like & stability(engine)......I keep seeing people get their cars all screwed up with the stability of the car...I keep bouncing back & forth, 40# sure isn't much, I could probably lose that much by summer, very compelling

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by enzo1

thanks for the reply ,Jack, LOVE your car, but you have built a rsr, "the gold-plated Porsche", if u will....I don't want to have to change my car to suit that much horse power & weight, in other words I like fun littlle 'sleepers' ,I guess the real ? is: torgue 'which I really like & stability(engine)......I keep seeing people get their cars all screwed up with the stability of the car...I keep bouncing back & forth, 40# sure isn't much, I could probably lose that much by summer, very compelling

The biggest issue standing in the way of a 911 upgrade to 3.6 thru '77 is the small rear fenders. You will really want as much traction as you can get in back. Some have done it and used 944 8s in back but it's still going to be extremely tight and ride height and suspension settings may be compomised to get the tires to fit.

Weight will be the least of your concerns re 2.7 to 3.6 t/p

you absolutly have to have a big(or 2 big) front coolers. Next issue is the above mentioned rear wheel dilemma.

w/o body mods I'd suggest a nice 3.2 w/ headers & chip 7" 944 x16 Fuchs all around(maybe 944 8 in back) 215/45 & 225/45 tires, adjustable sways to tweek the balance.

[enzo1]

thanks bill, I will probably revisit this post a lot,I just hate to ditch the 2.7, cause it runs fine just would like a little more juice & have emotional attachment to car, I may have to get over it, honestly I haven't given the 3.2 enough thought, that sounds like a perfect choice, thanks again