How do you learn to drive?

[cashman]

I am interested in learning how to greater appreciate the potential of my 89 cabrio. I realize that a DE school is the best way to go. My delima is that I have a nice care in very good condition and I am not interested in adding a roll bar and possibly effecting the interior. My understanding is that all PCA and SCCA DE events require the installation of a roll bar. Before we start the debate, I realize the importance of a roll bar.

I am not necessarily interested in racing the vehicle but I would love to push the envelope a little in a safe environment with an instructor showing me some of the ropes.

Can anyone recommend anything?

[Dantilla]

Autocross!

No roll bar needed, and you get to drive the car at its limits, without worrying about damaging the car.

Here in the Northwest Region, the Autocross gang also has "Skills Day", a school with more seat time than an autocross, lots of instruction, and no timing. If you can find anything like this close to you, it's highly recommended.

[cashman]

I thought most Auto-crosses are sponsored by PCA or SCCA, therefore, needing a roll bar. I am 30 minutes from Lowe's Motor Speedway in Charlotte. Best thing I've done so far was "drive your car around the track for $25". Three laps behind a pace car. Got it up to 100+. Pretty cool experience.

[ChkbookMechanic]

I don't think you need a roll bar if you are in one of the lower classes.. at least you don't need one in the lower levels here in Texas.

Autocrosses put on by SCCA clubs shouldn't require a roll bar.

[Christien]

PCA doesn't require a roll bar for DEs, at least our local chapter doesn't. I've done DEs and lapping days for years now and never installed a roll bar. PCA's method is an excellent introduction to track driving - they ease you into it with some skid pad, then braking exercises, then get you out on the track, and you're only out with the novices, so you don't have someone in a Cup Car barreling down on you! It's extremely safe - the weakest link in the safety chain is you and your ego. Keep that in check, and you'll be fine. So long as you pay attention and listen to your instructor, your chances of any kind of incident are significantly lower than on any major 4-lane highway.

All I can say is "do it"! Your car will thank you!

[HarryD]

Like the others said, Autocross to learn about your car at (and beyond) it's limits with little risk of embarrasing crunches.

Here in Portland, all you need is a road worthy car, and a willingness to try.

It is great fun and you will learn a ton.

[porschenut]

cashman, you don't need anything at all to run in the Stock classes in PCA. In fact, for beginners it's usually recommended you show up with a stock car in street form. The purpose is to do exactly what you want to do - learn how to handle your car at speed and have a blast doing it!

[vanwyk4257]

Autocross is definitely a great way to learn car control. I did a fair amount of autocrossing before taking up DE and open track events and it definitely helped with car control at higher speeds on track.

I don't think any autocross in stock classes SCCA or otherwise will require a roll bar.

[JonT]

You could rent a car such as a Mustang and do a DE or 2 with it. You would be learning the same skills and basic fundamentals--and you wouldn't have to worry about beating up your car.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by JonT

You could rent a car such as a Mustang and do a DE or 2 with it. You would be learning the same skills and basic fundamentals--and you wouldn't have to worry about beating up your car.

JonT:

I respectfully disagree.

There is no way anyone in their right mind would run a DE at 9/10, 10/10 or 11/10 which is exactly what you can SAFELY do at an Autocross. If I did that at a DE, I would be going home without my car. At Autocross, I just straighten up and press on.

I will say that the skills I have developed in car control have paid off many times in accident avoidance.

As far as beating up your car, I have no idea what you mean. I have been Autocrossing my '73 for 5 years and other than needing to get tires a bit more often, I can find no evidence that I am "neating up" my car. In fact, my car seems to work better the more I run it hard during these times.

[chris.817]

PCA absolutely requires a rollbar in a Cab for DE. Don't know about autocross.

[cashman]

Thanks for all the responses. Maybe I didn't read the fine print, but whenever I looked up a DE or Autocross I thought it said Roll Bar required (cabrio) for the event. Thanks to all who posted. I will try to contact the event organizer next time something is in the area.

[Patrice911]

Hurricane PCA is having an autocross Saturday March 21 in Laurinburg NC.
Might not be that far out for you. http://hur.pca.org/Autocross.php that page was not updated with the 2009 date, check under calendar for the date.
The plan is to do a school in the morning and run the AX in the afternoon.
We are usually not that many, and it’s a low key friendly event

[fbarrett]

If you've never driven on a track, start by autocrossing in PCA or SCCA. There's no better and safer way (OK, maybe a skidpad) to teach you how your car reacts at the limits and how you can control it using the steering wheel and throttle. Then, when you understand those valuable techniques, you can take your new skills to the more challenging track.

The problem with jumping straight into track driving is that you do so with almost no concept of the above skills. Autocrossing will help you to develop your subconscious car control, so when you are later faced with a daunting track or corner, you can focus more on its intricacies instead of learning the basics. It's like learning to swim in the shallow end of the pool...and when you do graduate to the track, autocrossing will give you a huge advantage.

Frank (40-year autocrosser, 30-year track driver, 20-year instructor)

[Dixie]

Cashman,

The simple answer is to run with a different club. Come on down to a Turn1 event at CMP. (link provided in my signature.) Show up with the top up, and you're good to go!

I can say that you'll get more track time than you will at a PCA DE, and you might even get to meet my lovely bride Dixie. She enjoys working registration and simply hanging out at the track.

[rfn026]

Most groups don't require a roll bar for autocross events.

Richard Newton
Autocross Performance Handbook

[cashman]

Thanks Patrice for the info.

Capt Carrera,
You make this very enticing. I reviewed the website and found:

"Convertibles are not permitted unless they have a roll bar (with proper head clearance) or factory roll bars (Z4, S-2000, etc.)."

This was under general requirements?

[Dixie]

Here's the best advice I can offer. Call them and plead your case. Stock car, stock tires, new driver...

Can't say it will work. Canlt say it won't.

[esotoracing]

My 2 cents cashman. . . .do both Autocross and DE (which you dont need a rollbar) i was an instructor and to tell you the truth you wont get to the real potential of your car with an autocross, youll learn the limits of slow corners (thats all). Yea i know im gona get some moans and growns for saying that but its the truth. How many autocross tracks are there wjere you get your car out of third gear ?? Get to a DE where you can open up you car, learn braking points, heel and toe and is much more fun to be on a real track than a parking lot.
i can hear the moans and groans already............

[teenerted1]

http://pnwr.org/Track/driver_ed/rules.asp
http://pnwr.org/track/autocross/rules.asp