"Time running out on the development of the 911..."

Doug&Julie · 03-21-2009, 11:37 AM

Watching the Sebring 12 hour race I heard one of the announcers mention "a little birdy told me" that there may be something new coming from Porsche, hinting that the 911 has reached the "end of it's development". He said "not today, not tomorrow, but possibly in a year or two". He failed to elaborate...does anybody know anything about this? Is Porsche giving up on the rear engined layout? ..or are they talking about a V8 "911"? All speculation on my part, FWIW. The only other thing they added was "remember, you heard it here first!"

red67 · 03-21-2009, 12:37 PM

sounds intriguing doug!
ruf are going retro look and electric so.... ...do you think its electric 911s from now? that will be so disappointing.

http://jalopnik.com/tag/ruf-eruf-greenster/?id=5163747

jwetering · jwetering's Garage

Umm..I had to look at the post date for this thread because for a second I thought it was 1978. Remember how the 928 was going to replace the 911?

My guess is that Porsche will continue making a rear engined 2+2 with a sloping back for many years to come. As long as they will be building cars I reckon. They may not always be internal combustion engine powered, that much may be true, but I'll be very surprised if the gave up the concept completely.

It's kind of like if you had a goose which laid eggs made of gold. You'd take care of that goose wouldn't you? Same with Porsche, except the goose is the 911, and the golden eggs are like...well you get the picture.

Doug&Julie · 03-21-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwetering

It's kind of like if you had a goose which laid eggs made of gold. You'd take care of that goose wouldn't you?

If we're talking about tradition and production / sales, I agree with you. But lets face it, the 911 hasn't exactly been dominating the racing world the past couple of years. It would be a sad day, but...maybe Porsche has finally realized the shortcomings of the rear engined layout for racing?

Zeke · 03-21-2009, 01:48 PM

With the Panamera just coming out, I don't think the 911 in it's various forms is going to leave us in 2 years.

What could be a strange development in the somewhat distant years would follow the fate of the VW beetle. Now, it's back and selling well. Can you imagine the 911 revisited as a 2025 model after several years of no production? Well, I'd be nearly 80 YO in 2025, so whether I ever saw such a thing or not, it would all be moot.

So, go ahead Porsche, do whatever you want, I won't be a taker anyway. I'll bet I'm not alone it that.

efhughes3 · efhughes3's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug&Julie

If we're talking about tradition and production / sales, I agree with you. But lets face it, the 911 hasn't exactly been dominating the racing world the past couple of years. It would be a sad day, but...maybe Porsche has finally realized the shortcomings of the rear engined layout for racing?

Seems like it did "OK" in the ALMS last year....

Doug&Julie · 03-21-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milt

With the Panamera just coming out, I don't think the 911 in it's various forms is going to leave us in 2 years.
...
So, go ahead Porsche, do whatever you want, I won't be a taker anyway. I'll bet I'm not alone it that.

Again, I got the impression they were talking about the racing 911, not the production of the street 911 (or any other Porsche for that matter).

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

They need to look at a modern version of the 914 - cheaper, more economical, 2-seat, light, quick, agile. There's a market for that. I read somewhere that they'd looked at this a few years ago and then abandoned the idea for whatever reason (probably a market obsessed with gas-guzzling pig-like SUVs for the last few years). However as the economy limps along and gas prices continue to climb, I doubt there will be huge demand for $130,000 911s. A few will sell for sure, but they need to make up for the lost Cayenne sales, which are in the toilet right now. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see some sort of small, more "entry-level" Porsche come along. It has historically worked well for the company looking to boost sales and increase brand loyalty (think 914, 944, Boxster, etc.)

The Boxster is getting played out and will probably need to be replaced or given a major facelift soon.

Doug&Julie · 03-21-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efhughes3

Seems like it did "OK" in the ALMS last year....

Just. Beaten by Ferraris two years previous. Beaten by Ferrari in 2008 Le Mans. Beaten by Mazda in the 2008 24 at Daytona...and fourth place in the championship (second place in the manufacturers championship) in 2008. To add insult to injury, didn't Risi used to be a Porsche team? (..or am I thinking of somebody else?) How about Rahal? Didn't I read there are only (2) GT2 Porsches at Le Mans this year? So far some turn around for this year with the new car, but they are losing at Sebring.

Time to be setting your goals higher than "OK"...

efhughes3 · efhughes3's Garage

There's no doubt the bar is raised. But, nonetheless, FLMS won ALMS last year. Pat Long was one of the winning team in 2007 in a 911 @ Le Mans.

I think it is all great racing.

The 911's dominated Sebring qualifying, so the pace is there. Jorg had a bit of bad luck on lap 4, so who knows what the outcome MAY have been @ Sebring this year?

efhughes3 · efhughes3's Garage

Oh, need I mention the Rolex @ Daytona this year?

felix_browne · 03-21-2009, 03:29 PM

Last year at a local race shop I saw they had retrofit a gt3rs 911 motor into a boxter with great success and were talking about setting up some caymans that way. With the performance potential of a configuration like that, i could see porsche transitioning into a new strategy with the cayman at the forefront for racing. That would step things up for them and much of the technology is already there. the only downside is the detriment to the 911 "brand".

runfaster · 03-21-2009, 04:13 PM

Porsche is slowly becoming all about the Boxster and the Cayman.

Sales are such that they are not afraid anymore to step on the toes of the 911; they are finally increasing the engine displacement of the mid engine vehicles to levels that can rival the 911 in performance. Something that they have always shied away from in past secondary models.

If the economy takes years to recover, Porsche will have no other option to let the $100,000 911 take a back seat to the $40,000 to $60,000 little brothers.

Frankly, I think the Boxster and Cayman S models are a lot more intriguing than the 911 models. Excluding the GT models, of course.

Porsche is slowly becoming all about the Boxster and the Coxster.

Later,
Craig

Venetian · 03-21-2009, 04:44 PM

Also why is it that the Daytona prototypes are not in ALMS this year?

Jim Garfield · 03-21-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venetian

Also why is it that the Daytona prototypes are not in ALMS this year?

Because they race in a different series?

Doug , I saw that report and thought the same thing - that he was suggesting the 911 had reached the end of it's racing development. It is possible that this is the case, but reading what the head of R&D at Porsche had to say last month in Excellence, doubtful.

914efi · 03-21-2009, 05:02 PM

I have been thinking that an artfully stretched Cayman/Boxster that allowed for a flat-8 and a marketing friendly back seat would be a nice evolution.

Maxhouse97 · 03-21-2009, 05:12 PM

Porsche Racing R&D guy was interviewed in Excellence a month or two back and he said that "by their calculations" the 911 (rear engined) can still be competitive for years to come. He also said that a mid-engined 911 would be doable. Kind of left things slightly open...

Porsche brags that their company is the only auto maker where the racing department is owned by R&D and not marketing. Obviously for marketing purposes, it makes sense to continue with the 911. We will see what wins out.

Also keep in mind that the sanctioning bodies have a play here - i.e. they can give 911s breaks on weight rules in order to keep them competitive.

My guess is they will stay with the rear engine configuration and continue to inch up (towards the front) the engine year by year like they have been...

OZCarrera3 · OZCarrera3's Garage

Wouldn't it be great if there something in Porsche's stable of cars with a mid-mounted engine, light weight, PDK/sequential gearbox and a limited slip diff to go up against the Ferrarai 430's?

Wait a minute, this might sound cazy but,.....what about a Cayman 3.8 RSR?

Maxhouse97 · 03-21-2009, 05:21 PM

Panoz just put Flying Lizard 45 into the wall going for third place. There that goes...

914efi · 03-21-2009, 07:09 PM

That was my thought, an 8 cyl mid engine competitor for the Ferrari. With the stretch, you get space for a sunroof in the hardtop. Keep the Boxster/Cayman, maybe even move them downmarket with the removal of some fluff that can go into the new 911/8, 918, M911, or whatever other good name they can come up with.