Found broken parts in engine

[Charlie V]

I removed the lower right valve cover and found this sitting on the cover just below the #5 exhaust valve. I looked with a light and mirror - all the right side valve retainers (intake and exhaust) look intact, nothing obvious on the valve adjusters.

The hand drawn sketch is the shape of the pieces. The bottom is smooth with the top having a worn strip on it. It is obvious the part was rubbing whatever it was connected to.

Any suggestions??



Flipped the pieces over...

[Emission]

They look small.

Can you photograph them next to a ruler or a coin for scale?

[Charlie V]

Ran out to the shop and measured. They are also hardened steel. Engine has 270,000 kms (~170,000 miles) on it.

[Zef]

Look pretty small, but anything like that coming out of the engine is bad...Are they magnetic...?

[staffanbe]

Isn't this part of a valve spring?

[Fishcop]

Try posting on the engine forum - someone will recognize it.

[Rouxzy]

I had similar findings in my 2.7 before I replaced it. I just tore it down this past weekend and found that it was part of the rings. I had two rings that just started to fall apart.
Tom

[WERK I]

My vote is for the top part of a valve spring. If you join the pieces together, notice how they get dimensionally get narrower (width-wise)? The top portion of the valve springs are also flat as they meet the retainer.
Have you had the car long? Could it be that these pieces have been in there by the previous owner?

[Charlie V]

Originally Posted by Zef

...Are they magnetic...?

yes

[Charlie V]

Originally Posted by WERK-I

My vote is for the top part of a valve spring. If you join the pieces together, notice how they get dimensionally get narrower (width-wise)? The top portion of the valve springs are also flat as they meet the retainer.
Have you had the car long? Could it be that these pieces have been in there by the previous owner?

I'm thinking valve spring too. I've had the car 5 year and likely adjusted the valves at least 6 to 7 times. Have never seen bits when I opened it up.

Thanks for the replies.

Been emailing a friend....the engine is coming out and apart. Good part - I've been planning this for the last couple of years and currently taking an engine rebuilding course. Bad part - driving season is just starting and this is going to be expensive.

[86911cab]

The pieces also look like they curve like parts of a spring.

[Gunter]

Charlie:
Pretty good Mileage; time for a rebuild?
Looks like something from the Valve spring assembly?
I would adjust all valves according to factory procedure and clearance 0.1 mm (0.004") and carefully inspect each spring assembly.
Look for differences in height.
Is the suspected spring really loose when prying with a screwdriver?
Fish around with the magnet and try to find more pieces.
Anything on the screen in the sump?

If you need an engine, I have a beauty.

3.0 liter engine (rebuild) for sale feeler

[Gunter]

[QUOTE=Charlie V
Been emailing a friend....the engine is coming out and apart. Good part - I've been planning this for the last couple of years and currently taking an engine rebuilding course. Bad part - driving season is just starting and this is going to be expensive.[/QUOTE]

Just noticed your reply and agree it's time for a rebuild but bad timing.

When I planned to build an engine, I didn't want to miss out on the driving season plus I didn't want to rush things.
So, I took my time getting the parts and build it while still driving.

The biggest cost would be P/C's if you find Kolbenschmidt Alusil; very risky to re-ring.

Consider buying my engine, guarantied Mahle Nikasil P/C's; install and drive.

Then take your time rebuilding yours and sell it when it's finished.

Advantage: You wouldn't miss any driving, you wouldn't be pressured to get the rebuild done and you'd have more time to get whatever parts you need.
Plus you'd know the cost up front on my engine while the cost of a rebuild needed in a hurry will add up.

Think about it; it's a win-win-win situation.

I remember an old saying in Engineering: It'll always cost more and take longer than expected.

[Charlie V]

Decisions, decisions........

My leak down numbers are excellent - PO did rings (with Alusil barrels) and valve guides/valves at 225,000 kms. Currently have 270,000 kms on the clock. Engine runs strong and oil pressure is very good. Burns about 1 litre of oil per driving season (7,000 to 10,000 kms). So - the engine is in fairly good shape and didn't want to dig into things for another couple of years.

I know my cam lobes are pitted so they need work. Depends on what my sprockets are like as to how far I need to go. I would prefer just a top end - valve train and cams for now and then go with a complete rebuild in a couple of years. Hope to be retired by then and can spend some quality time with my girlfriend (aka Rosie).

And, Gunter's engine is also in the cards.

Decisions, decisions.

I need to step away and think this through. I'll spend today doing some Spring cleaning of the back yard.

[Charlie V]

Just got an email from Steve Weiner.........

Looks like possibly bits of broken valve spring and thats not uncommon for SC's. You should be able to locate the source by pushing on each retainer and finding the "soft" one. The PO should have replaced the springs @140K.

Good thing you found that as you narrowly missed a VERY expensive catastrophe (when the valve gets loose),...............

Thanks for the input Steve.

John Walker also feels it is valve spring.

Interestingly, I did the last valve adjustment in the Fall just before our last DE. Since then the right side had a nosiy valve. So, another lesson learnt here.

[Gunter]

Start the process.
Drain the oil, get the jacks ready.
You'll see soon enough if the PO had the heads/valves done as described and what else was done. Glad the Alusil re-ring went well.

If the valves are good and the guides/seals are fairly new maybe just new springs?
The rockers may need new bushings and polish; check the shafts for wear.

Do NOT feed new chains onto old I-shaft chain sprockets:

New chains without new sprockets? Read this!

If you don't want to do a complete rebuild, re-use the old chain for now and maybe just replace ramps if needed.

Check the condition of the head studs. Are they Steel? Or?
Cam grind about $400.-
If things go well, you may be able to do the top-end for under $4k.

[Charlie V]

Well, believe it or not guys....I'm going to replace the broken spring with the engine in.

One of my friends at work did this to his SC and it worked out just fine. This was a few years back and he is still going strong. He uses his car as a daily driver and has done a few DEs with the car. Let's just say he does not hold back with his right foot.

Basically, I'm buying myself about 2 years to do a complete rebuild and hotrod the engine at that time.

How will I do this??

Plan is to fabricate a bracket that bolts to the valve cover studs. The bracket will have a large bolt threaded through it to press down on the valve spring. Between the bolt and the valve spring, I'll use a socket with the side cut out to access the keepers. I'll drop the right side exhaust for access. Rotate #5 to TDC and pressurize the cylinder with 100 psi air.

I'll take pictures to document.

Let me know what you think. Please note.....I already know I'm crazy.

Gunter, I would love to purchase your engine, but my thrifty Dutch ancestry comes into play here.

[sc_rufctr]

Sounds good but why not save yourself some angst and get on of these.
There two different types for exhaust and intake.

[TRE Cup]

we have used them and works fine
you will need to pressurize the cylinder with 100 psi or more

[sc_rufctr]

Our host does sell them...

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_TOLtol_pg5.htm