85 Front Spindel Opinion

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Hey Fellas,

Hope all is well.

Had a Question. Just replaced my front wheel bearings & seals. It was easy as pie, BTW. Thanks PZ, Rnln

My passanger side old bearings had play even after tightening it. After replacement to my dismay the play still exists.

Vibration at 60-70 MPH

Is this a sign of a worn out spindel or do I need to tighten it more? Can I replace just one side or is it a must to replace both with new?

Wrench stated it was my driver side that needed possible replacing but with the new bearings I have no play at all.

Any opinions?

TIA

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Any Takers?

KTL · 05-14-2009, 08:44 AM

Are you sure it's your wheel bearings? If you have Bilstein struts, the bushing inside the strut could be worn and making you think the slop in the assembly is the wheel bearings.

Just curious also, did you just replace the roller bearings themselves, or did you also replace the races in the wheel hub? Bearings and races are precision matched and new bearings should use the new races that come with them.

Cooper911SC · 05-14-2009, 08:54 AM

I'll second checking out the Bilstein bushing issue. I have that exact problem on my RF strut. The auto-cross tech folks freak out every time they pull on the wheel assembly to check the wheel bearing play.

Cooper

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL

Are you sure it's your wheel bearings? If you have Bilstein struts, the bushing inside the strut could be worn and making you think the slop in the assembly is the wheel bearings.

Just curious also, did you just replace the roller bearings themselves, or did you also replace the races in the wheel hub? Bearings and races are precision matched and new bearings should use the new races that come with them.

Yes, I have Bilsteins. Bushings? That is very interesting, will check.

I did a complete Bearing Service with new races and seals

Thanks for the Heads Up on the Bushings, is this a replaceable part?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooper911SC

I'll second checking out the Bilstein bushing issue. I have that exact problem on my RF strut. The auto-cross tech folks freak out every time they pull on the wheel assembly to check the wheel bearing play.

Cooper

Yeap, RF play. Damn I will definitely take a peek.

Thank you Gents!

KTL · 05-14-2009, 09:36 AM

Sweet. I think we found the problem. Bilstein will rebush the struts for you, but kinda expensive ($150 ea. I think?) given the simple nature of this job. Better to contact cgarr on the forums here. He does the replacement of the bushings himself. He's a very good machinist.

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Awsome KTL, thanks for the lead.

Just PMed Cgarr

Joe V · 05-15-2009, 07:24 AM

+1 with KTL
I did my front wheel bearings only to find I still had looseness.
Turned out to be the Bilstein bushings. It's a bear to do at home, since you have to fab a tool to pull them. The left side, which was the worse of the two, is done, but I'm taking a break before tearing into the right side.

Cooper911SC · 05-15-2009, 07:58 AM

Hi Joe V,

Any chance you could put up a pic. of your bushing puller and a description of the replacement? Did you buy the new bushings from Bilstein or fabricate your own on a lathe?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks, Cooper

SCOTITUDE · 05-15-2009, 08:25 AM

I had Bilstein revalve my shock a bunch of years ago for $55 each. I know it has gone up since then but i dont think to $150. I thought i saw $65 or $75.

KTL · 05-15-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTITUDE

I had Bilstein revalve my shock a bunch of years ago for $55 each. I know it has gone up since then but i dont think to $150. I thought i saw $65 or $75.

You're referring to service done on the shock absorber/damper insert in the strut assembly. We're talking about the strut housing itself which has a bushing inside of it that supports the damper. The bushing is not part of the shock, so it's not something that gets replaced or inspected when you have your shocks revalved by Bilstein. The shock bushing is actually a part of the strut housing.

Cooper911SC · 05-15-2009, 09:18 AM

I just called Bilstein to get some info. I think they call the "Bushing" a Strut Bearing.

Here is a price list and info. from their web site. Looks like $100 per strut to replace.

http://www.bilstein.com/services.php

Cooper

Joe V · 05-15-2009, 09:31 AM

Cooper,

I manglefactured (yes, mangle-factured) a tool out of a cheap socket. It was a pain to make and even bigger pain to remove the old bushing.
Order the busings AND the roll pin from Bilstein West Coast, as the East Coast office doesn't seem to know that they make those parts...(?)

Here's what you'll need:

-Long hex bolt
-Long hex bolt nut
-2 or 3 mechanic's magnet pen tool (narrow enough to fit the opening of your wedge)
-A very thick (at least 1/2) washer or 1/2 inch drive socket as close in outer diameter as possible to the bushing (40mm)
-Large thick washer (found it in the masonry section of Lowe's)
-Spacers of various sizes

I used a long hex bolt and a nut that I picked up at Lowe's. As long as it fits the hole in your wedge (wedge is what I'm calling what was left of the 1/2 inch socket after grinding it into a wedge-like shape).

Now this is the tricky part. After you pull the strut, which itself can be a huge PITA, you drop the bolt into the hole. Here is where your patience and dexterity are tested. Drop in your wedge and try to get the wide side towards the top. Now take one of your magnets and fish the wedge into position below the upper bushing and hold it steady. Take the other magnet and drop it down to catch the hex bolt that you dropped into the bottom of the strut opening. Pull it up through the wedge opening. Feel free to use your significant other to help hold one of the magnets.

Now start turning the nut and cross your fingers.

Having a friend that's a machinist will make the grinding part MUCH easier, as the wedge has to have its sides flattened in order to pass through the bushing/strut tube.

Hope this helps.

Cooper911SC · 05-15-2009, 09:47 AM

Thanks Joe! So just to clarify/simplify what you did...

The "wedge" gets droped into the srtut past the bushing, then positioned under it so that it catches the edge of the bushing, and finally as you tighten up the nut on the washer the bushing is drawn out of the strut housing.

I assume you just used a long screwdriver, punch, or some such to tap the new bushing into the strut?

Very helpful! Thank you. I'll see if Bilstein will sell me the bushings.

I live 40-50 miles or so from Poway where they are located in CA. That is their service facility.

Cooper

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Wow, I opened up a can of worms didn't I?

Hey Coop,

Please post if bilstein will sell parts, that would be cool.

Cooper911SC · 05-15-2009, 10:06 AM

Hey Draco,

I have a VM in at Bilstein...once I hear back I'll post the info.

Maybe we can get together again and do the fix.

Coop

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Hell Yeah, Count me in!!!

Just sent you a PM

rnln · 05-15-2009, 12:08 PM

Guys,
Does this bushing things apply to sotck shock/strut or only Bilstein?
Thanks.

KTL · 05-15-2009, 02:23 PM

Sorry for the bady memory on my part ($150 guess).

This bushing issue only applies to Bilstein strut housings. Boge struts do not use a bushing and the dampers are installed in the strut differently from the Bilstein. Boge shock inserts have dampers that are held at the top of the strut tube and the damper shaft is the part that "telescopes" out of the strut tube. The Bilstein damper is inverted in the strut housing and the damper shaft is pinned to the bottom of the strut with a roll pin. The shock body itself is what you see "telescope" in and out of the strut housing.

Drago,

What did Craig (cgarr) have to say about the bushing replacement

Joe V · 05-15-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooper911SC

Thanks Joe! So just to clarify/simplify what you did...

The "wedge" gets droped into the srtut past the bushing, then positioned under it so that it catches the edge of the bushing, and finally as you tighten up the nut on the washer the bushing is drawn out of the strut housing.

I assume you just used a long screwdriver, punch, or some such to tap the new bushing into the strut?

Very helpful! Thank you. I'll see if Bilstein will sell me the bushings.

I live 40-50 miles or so from Poway where they are located in CA. That is their service facility.

Cooper

Cooper,

That's it. It's a bit of a balancing act in order to get the wedge in position so you can fish the bolt thru.

I tried making a "cam" type device that would pivot and catch the bushing, but the stock steel bar I used wasn't strong enough.

Bilstein charges handsomely for the bushings. I called every supplier I could find and they all had a 50 gazzillion piece minimum order, so they might be your only choice. I believe they are refered to as JU metric bushings and are refered to by length, diameter, and thickness (not necessarily in that order).

Check with Cgarr, as I think he's got a few. Actually, I'm looking for one myself since I mangled one when installing. Stay away from a single point driver like a punch. It will ruin the new bushing (been there, done that, got the t-shirt...). The metal is fairly soft and gouges easily. I ended up using an old front wheel bearing race (from the P-car) that just happened to be roughly the same size as the bushing and attached it to an old socket with some electrical tape. And the wife wonders why I don't throw any of the old junk away!!

Good luck!