What are you CA guys doing with emission equipment on your pre 75 911s?

[carnitasboy]

I just bought a 75 911S and it has the smog pump and some blower thingy on it. I want to get rid of it, but I want to make sure I dont introduce any other problems.

What are you guys doing with your smog carp?

[dipso]

All gone.
Smog pump, catalytic converter, heater blower, thermal reactors all gone.
Backdated exhaust, backdated heater.

If you just bought it, you may have to pass smog once to register. After that you should be OK.

[BLEW911]

Thats illegal isn't it?

Don

[PCA7GGR]

I'd hold on to it, you might need it some day. The CA legislature is always threatening to change the smog requirements on our older cars. If they do, you may have to put the stuff back on. It's getting hard to find.

[yelcab1]

Illegal, yes.

You do want it to be hard to find because if they make you put it back on, you will have to prove to them that it is no longer available, even from a junk yard.

[Evans, Marv]

I'm keeping what came on my car because I'm saving all of the stock items in case somebody I might sell it to in the future might want to restore it to original.

[jimbauman]

I thought anything goes on a pre '75. That's why we see a lot of street legal early 70's 911s floating around with 600HP engines...

JB

[ossiblue]

As above, took it off and saved it but only for "originality" purposes upon resale.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Nope, pre-75 only means you don't have to deal with paying the extortion money to the state every 24 months as a procedural prerequisite to obtaining your registration. Remember, here in CA you're "guilty until proven innocent" when it comes to vehicles, and the only way to prove your innocence to the satisfaction of the state (if you have a post-75 vehicle) is to pay a fee for an approved state smog inspection. Once you've done this, you then have the "privilege" of standing in another line to go pay another fee (the highest in the country, incidentally) for a registration certificate to drive your vehicle on the roads that your own tax dollars pay for.

You're still technically required to have all original emissions equipment in place and if you're ever spot-checked and found to not have such equipment, they can ring you up hard for it. This is rare, but it is known to occasionally happen. Similarly, if someone rats you out (a neighbor with an axe to grind, etc.) they can still require you to go in for a smog check even with a pre-75 car (and pay the fee naturally). The state encourages such "rat out your neighbor" behavior here and people are known to dial the 1-800 number on other individuals they want to make life difficult for (it's the same number you call if you see a car puking smoke driving down the freeway). There is also a pilot program currently underway for roadside "sniffers" which would detect emissions and then photo your license plate. You'd then be mailed an invitation to bring your vehicle in for a smog inspection (and pay the fee). The pilot program for this has been going on for a couple of years.

Additionally if you have a later-year engine (for example, you've done a 3.0L or 3.6L conversion) the engine must have the emissions equipment from the more recent year on it. It's technically not legal to, say, drop a 3.6L engine in place with carbs, no cats and radical cams. People do it, but technically they can seize your car for such a transgression.

It is illegal to have ANY modification to a vehicle upstream of the exhaust manifolds, regardless of year - unless such modifications are "approved". In order to be approved, the components in question must bear a "CARB exemption number" (CA Air Resources Board) stamped on the parts. If they don't, you will fail the visual inspection. As a point of interest, I had a turbo conversion kit for my 944 a few years ago and called CARB to see what it would take to obtain an exemption number for the turbo conversion kit. After much bureaucratic runaround, I was finally told that it would involve "engineering review" which was basically fees amounting to several thousand dollars, but naturally they wouldn't give me a firm dollar number. The bottom line is a manufacturer of aftermarket parts needs to have pretty deep pockets in order to appease CARB and get an "approved" part to market. Presumably if you throw enough dollars at CARB, you'll eventually get your number, but it is cost-prohibitive for a home tuner to do this... Just a side note.

Kalifornia does not have "citizens", it has "subjects". This is just one of the many, many reasons I'm looking to get out of this state, but that's another discussion for another forum...

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Kalifornia does not have "citizens", it has "victims"....

Fixed it for ya.

Jeff, the '75 model is included. It's not "pre 75" as you state, AFAIK.

[longhornchris04]

All the stuff Jeff listed is why you also read about so many large displacement CIS cars. Unless you really know what to look for, a 3.2SS or 3.4 (or anything bigger) with stock CIS and exhaust would look like a stock engine. If its in tune, it would pass the sniff test no problem. Running a CAT bypass pipe and replacing the CAT every inspection is another common tactic.

The CARB also prevents installing aftermarket replacements for unavailable OE parts, like the UTCIS digital WUR in place of a non-functional WUR (very very expensive to replace/rebuild). But, if your WUR is busted, its nearly impossible to pass emissions.

Don't even ask about what you have to do if you rebuild an engine. No allowance for break-in time.

I've also hear of a number of folks who have to de-tune their engine to pass smog, then adjust it back after the check.

As for me, my car may be in Cali for now, but its plated in Texas. CARB can suck my exhaust pipe... which currently belches unburned HCs because I'm running slightly rich.

[yelcab1]

All that is true. But, if the thermo-reactor is no longer available from porsche, and no longer available from their 3 approved junk yard, the state will pass you because no law can force you to install something no longer found anywhere.

Second lesson, be nice to your neighbors. I am nice to my neighbors. I fix all their cars.

[JP911]

Also note that the ignition has to be stock. If you have a 12-plug distributor in a car that was originally 6-plug you will not pass.

Also, to answer part of the original question: if you remove the air injection manifold that bolts to each of the heads, you will need to plug the ports. There are posts on Pelican about the type of bolt required.

[longhornchris04]

[QUOTE=JP911;4729831]Also note that the ignition has to be stock. If you have a 12-plug distributor in a car that was originally 6-plug you will not pass.
QUOTE]

This may be off-topic, but doesn't a twin-plug burn more cleanly/completely? As I understand it, thats why Wayne recommends it for >=98mm cylinders. With twin-plug the chamber is fairly symmetric and its easier to ensure complete combustion w/o having to have dangerous levels of spark advance compared to a single plug off-center where the flame front has to travel across the chamber (and dome in a high-compression engine).

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by longhornchris04

This may be off-topic, but doesn't a twin-plug burn more cleanly/completely? As I understand it, thats why Wayne recommends it for >=98mm cylinders. With twin-plug the chamber is fairly symmetric and its easier to ensure complete combustion w/o having to have dangerous levels of spark advance compared to a single plug off-center where the flame front has to travel across the chamber (and dome in a high-compression engine).

Yes, a twin-plug engine burns more completely and is cleaner. CARB doesn't care. They only want your money (or more correctly, the money from the manufacturer of the distributor before they'll bless it).

The "clean-air" laws in the People's Republik of Kalifornia are a money-grab more often than they have anything to really do with clean air, once you dig beneath the surface. Sorry to drag this off-topic, but that's really how it works.

Personally I think if they actually cared about clean air they'd set stringent tailpipe emissions standards (as they already do) and then however you get to that number is up to you. I've seen 951s personally (including my old one before it met its untimely end) running with no cats that easily met the state tailpipe standards for HC, NOx and particulates. It was all in the tuning and fuel maps. No cat was required, except the smog nazis said the car had to have one. The cat was doing NOTHING to make the emissions cleaner, it was only forcing me to drag around extra weight (think of the impact of that extra 30-40 pounds times every single vehicle out there on unnecessary fuel consumption), generate extra heat and (worst of all) restrict my exhaust, robbing me of power.

Point is, if the state REALLY cared about clean air, they'd let you get to the required emission number however you damn well pleased, not by meddling and micromanaging people's fuel pressure regulators, spark plugs and other crap. Just another example of CA government overreaching and butting into EVERYTHING in order to create work for itself (which is bankrupting the state, incidentally).

But I digress...

[JP911]

Originally Posted by longhornchris04

This may be off-topic, but doesn't a twin-plug burn more cleanly/completely? As I understand it, thats why Wayne recommends it for >=98mm cylinders. With twin-plug the chamber is fairly symmetric and its easier to ensure complete combustion w/o having to have dangerous levels of spark advance compared to a single plug off-center where the flame front has to travel across the chamber (and dome in a high-compression engine).

The flaw here is your application of that wild and wacky concept known as logic (a.k.a. common sense).

[carnitasboy]

Well thanks for all the responses. I really don't care about the legality of it. I have had many cars, pre 76 that had bigger, faster engines in them that were totally not stock or even appear to be. Some one had said that is why you see so many cars with huge HP! And that is the reason I bought a 75. I wanted the option to put a new engine in there if I wanted and I dont want anything that is going to hinder performance.

That being said, I really just wanted to know if there what I needed to plug and/or adjust to make my 2.7 as strong/fast as possible without causing more issues. I think that JP911 answered me there. Thanks. Anything else I should know?

OH, and continue ranting about CA and how it sucks. I agree. But I love the weather

[longhornchris04]

Sorry, here's your answers.

'74 or earlier heat exchangers. Or SSI - stainless replicas of the '74 exhaust. Either is essentially equal-length headers. Pair with a dual inlet muffler.

Lose the smog pump and plug the holes into the heads - pelican sells the plugs.

Even if you don't backdate the heat exchangers, ditch the thermal reactors.

Also, if not done already, make sure you've done the reliability updates
- Eleven blade fan
- Lose the thermal reactors (yeah, its that important)
- Carrera chain tensioners
- CIS pop-off valve (even if you plan to ditch the CIS later)

Also, since its California, if you decide to completely disable the heat, make sure you get heater block-off plates.

As for adjustments, just make sure your timing and mixture are up to spec. For the most part, the engine runs best at about the same mixtures where it runs clean, at least when not running "hot" cams.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by BLEW911

Thats illegal isn't it?

Don

Yes, but who is going to know. Do you really think joe cop in a cruiser is going to know the difference.

When i was a teenager I had a 67 bug. Dumped, no bumpers, occasional stinger,aluminum dash missing gauges, blinkers shaved.
Everything possibly illegal on that car was illegal.

The girl down the street had the same year, same color. Bone stock.
I would save up my fix it tickets, swap plates with her and drive a bone stock, green 67 into the police station.
Get my tickets signed off and switch plates back again.

I haven't had an issue with my 75 since they passed the law.
I didn't even have thermal reactors for the last ten years. I had these fake thermal reactors that were just there for the visual. Still passed every time.

[jjrowe]

I've never had a problem passing my 76'. They look for a smog pump and the EGR pipe, I think thats it. I make sure the pump is hooked up, they don't notice that I don't have thermos.

On a side note, there really is no other way to run the smog I don't think. If you only take the sniffer test and don't care how people get there then everyone would just bolt something on that would allow the car to pass one day. Allowing all kinds of aftermarket stuff would also just make it too hard for the smog refs to figure out what was going on. I would love to be able to do whatever I wanted, but have you been to rancho cucamonga recently? I really feel bad for folks that have to live out there.

Is $50 every two years really that big of a deal? There are waay bigger cash grabs going on here (10% sales tax, inflated prop tax, etc..), the smog thing doesn't even register on my list.

Jesse