Optima yellow, Deep Cycle, and charging systems

rbogh901 · 08-12-2009, 05:16 PM

Optima makes deep cycle batteries that have been noted in many threads here and on other bulletin boards. Deep cycle batteries have potentially advantageous chemical characteristics and can be used, per many, including the Optima people themselves, as automotive starter batteries.

Some swear by them, some don't. The ones who don't usually report early failures. Are these failures really the result of inadequate charging systems? If so this would explain why the folks who use battery chargers when not using their vehicles are less likely to be disappointed. It may be that the folks who do not "trickle" charge their batteries eventually lose charge because their alternators/voltage regulators do not keep up with deep cycle charging requirements.

Some folks have now been using these batteries for years. Who has long term experience with regards to alternator/regulator issues in using deep cycle batteries? Just trying to get beyond the propaganda here.

James Brown · James Brown's Garage

my interstate went south after 10 years of service last year (rip) I put in a blue top optima (to match the paint) and I think it's a deep cycle. so far it's been very good, it starts, charges, does everything a battery should. Thats all you should want in a battery, time will tell...
But in the end, there all just batteries, billions and billions out there.

nineball · 08-12-2009, 08:39 PM

i prefer agm batteries myself for safety reasons. i remember reading that there are only 3 or 4 companies who produce 90% of all brands. could be wrong though, it was a long time ago.

SteveinTO · 08-12-2009, 09:26 PM

I am far from a battery expert, and I learned what I know almost 40 years ago, so my opinion is worth what you're paying for it.

I believe "deep cycle" batteries are best used in wheel chairs, boat trolling motors and Formula Fords...all applications where the battery is used or consumed and not re-charged by a charging system and regulator that maintains voltage within very narrow parameters. In other words, it'll run your wheel chair all day and then when it's almost flat, you plug it in to a charging system. An automotive battery is not designed to be treated that way. They typically get recharged to (I believe) a slightly higher voltage than an auto battery.

Back in the day I was cautioned to only use a "deep cycle" battery charger on a "deep cycle" battery. To charge a "deep cycle" battery on a standard auto charger would significantly shorten a "deep cycle" battery's life.

I don't recall the voltage and amperage specs to differentiate the two battery types, I just try to use each in its' proper application for maximum life. If you have a choice, I wouldn't use a "deep cycle" battery in an automotive application, except a racing car without an alternator.

The concept that a "deep cycle" battery is somehow inherently superior is, I believe, false.

NoLift911 · 08-13-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveinTO

I am far from a battery expert, and I learned what I know almost 40 years ago, so my opinion is worth what you're paying for it.

I believe "deep cycle" batteries are best used in wheel chairs, boat trolling motors and Formula Fords...all applications where the battery is used or consumed and not re-charged by a charging system and regulator that maintains voltage within very narrow parameters. In other words, it'll run your wheel chair all day and then when it's almost flat, you plug it in to a charging system. An automotive battery is not designed to be treated that way. They typically get recharged to (I believe) a slightly higher voltage than an auto battery.

Back in the day I was cautioned to only use a "deep cycle" battery charger on a "deep cycle" battery. To charge a "deep cycle" battery on a standard auto charger would significantly shorten a "deep cycle" battery's life.

I don't recall the voltage and amperage specs to differentiate the two battery types, I just try to use each in its' proper application for maximum life. If you have a choice, I wouldn't use a "deep cycle" battery in an automotive application, except a racing car without an alternator.

The concept that a "deep cycle" battery is somehow inherently superior is, I believe, false.

X2 - people hear deep cycle and they think that means better and what I need for my car. If you park at your local Dairy Queen and pump your music all night along with bouncing the suspension with your hydraulics until the batteries are dead - deep cycle is for you...

Otherwise stick to regular batteries...easier to charge, maintain and will last alot longer.

rbogh901 · 08-13-2009, 07:45 AM

Yes, "Deep Cycle" does not mean better, it means different, as in deeper discharge followed by recharge to full charge. That is correct. And one of the advantages is that, because of different (again not necessarily better) construction, a deep cycle battery tolerates being discharged more between charges, with less sulfation. In other words, it can take it, and this is why the hopped up car stereo folks use them to drive their thirsty amplifiers. A "conventional" starter, lights and ignition battery would suffer during these deep discharges, (thinner plates, greater surface area, more sulfation) and fail sooner.

Why would anyone consider a deep cycle battery? Because the charge can drop further before being recharged with less degradation to the plates. Besides running car stereos it means the battery can sit for longer periods between charges and it will last longer doing so than a conventional battery. One potential problem, as mentioned above, might be whether the alternator and voltage regulator will be able to restore adequate charge to these batteries during typical driving without resorting to auxillary (trickle or other) charging.

Do the people who are successful with Blue/Yellow tops drive (and thus recharge) their cars with short trips, or do they tend to drive for longer periods? Are their alternators and voltage regulators holding up? IIRC, Optima recommends relatively low current for recharging, ie, 1 amp. This doesn't seem excessive but those who have been using Yellow or Blue tops may be able to shed light. Does anyone know what kind of amperage is generated by the 71-73 alternators? How about the 78-83's?

T77911S · 08-13-2009, 09:26 AM

here is a site i found on batteries and charging. might help, might confuse you even more.

http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm

james, i had a great interstate on my 914-6. in short, it got a hole in it, one cell drained completely and i used for a year like that.

i think there are only a few companies that make all the batteries.

i remember when the sears die hard was THE battery. those things are junk now. i have had several that did not last bu about 2 years.

rbogh901 · 08-13-2009, 09:44 AM

Interesting. Thanks T77911S

"If you have a choice, try to get your system to charge within the range suggested by Bosch's newer graph. 14.5 volts at moderate temperature is not a bad target. The improvement in life and performance of lead/calcium and hybrid batteries will be worth it! "

Unfortunately the link seems to be referencing standard batteries more than "deep cycle" batteries. However, the implication is that voltage regulators should be set around 14 volts for complete charging. Is that we are getting?

Back to the question of why deep cycle batteries might be attractive: Garage queens that sit for long periods of time can benefit from such a battery. While some conventional starting batteries seem to do pretty well, a deep cycle battery should do better.

As for AGM, there is no question that this reduces and almost eliminates concerns about acid leaks and subsequent rust, no small factor in a fine automobile investment.

nineball · 08-13-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T77911S

james, i had a great interstate on my 914-6. in short, it got a hole in it, one cell drained completely and i used for a year like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbogh901

As for AGM, there is no question that this reduces and almost eliminates concerns about acid leaks and subsequent rust, no small factor in a fine automobile investment.

my thoughts exactly. if i can find something that does the job that needs to be done but in a better (safer) package i usually go with it.

rbogh901 · 08-13-2009, 11:03 AM

Hi nineball, yes, exactly. We are trying to get a battery that lasts longer, (less hassles, less getting stranded), and is safer. In my case, with a car that goes for variable periods of time, (sometimes months in the depths of winter), unused because it doesn't deserve to be driven in rain, snow, or salt anymore, a deep cycle battery might make sense.

So the question is: Do the people who are successful with Blue/Yellow tops drive, and thus recharge, their cars with short trips, or are the folks who are happy with their deep cycle batteries the ones who tend to drive for longer periods, say 30 minutes or so? Also, are their alternators and voltage regulators holding up?

Netspeed · 08-13-2009, 11:21 AM

I just installed a 14lb Genesis battery and it cranks my 3.2 like a champ. When not in use, I just disconnect the ground cable.

nineball · 08-13-2009, 12:06 PM

optima, in my opinion, is overpriced based on the name brand. everyone has heard of them so they have a built-in sales base if you will. i run a stinger in my dd and have had no problems at all.

i second the use of the battery disconnect. while it won't necessarily help with charging (you can get a battery tender for under $30) it will help with parasitic drains.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I use a CTEK battery charger to keep my red top Optima fully charged as I have an electrical drain somewhere that I haven't found yet. It has a special charging protocol for gel batteries.

T77911S · 08-14-2009, 04:05 AM

I figured 14.5 for charging volts too. mine is at 14.2. am i going to try and change it? no way.
i did a thread about this and suggested people chime in with their charging volts and battery type, but it did not fly.

as far as the deep cycle batts. my thought is most go with optima because they are hassle free, seeled and have gotten a good reputation from users that use them in a deep cycle functions. IE- running electric boat motors, golf carts and things like that that put a long drain on the battery. then we, not really understanding batteries, figure if they are great for electric stuff, they must be even better if we put them in our cars where they are charged all the time.

BTW, i work for the FAA and we use all optimas for starting the engine generators here at work. they are all kept on battery chargers and are never allowed to discharge. is this the proper way to use this battery, probably not, but they are less maintenance for us.

T77911S · 07:01 AM

here is another article on batts

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

this is good too. this site has a lot of good info on batts. there is a good page that shows you voltage loss when cranking due to small resistance, like dirty terminals.

http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-42B.htm