Another sub woof install idea-photos
 

I like some base but I really wanted to be non invasive. I had a box floating around for a while but it was too ghetto and this idea hit one night, about 2 AM trying to find sleep. I started making a "top" out of mdf http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250650074.jpg
Then I formed rabbit wire fence for the mold for the enclosure
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250650150.jpg
Then wrapped it with duct tape and lined it with foil before coating it with dry wall mud
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250650436.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250650466.jpg
I sanded the mud with 36 then 80 and 150 grit, painted primer surfacer, enamel and couldn't find mold release so in a not so brilliant state used Pam to coat it before four layers of fiberglass. It not only wouldn't release but needed about an hour to scrape off and pressure wash the plaster.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250650839.jpg
If you look closely you can see that Pam must have caused the paint to bind to the fiberglass. You can see the grey primer and the gold enamel. If you look real close you can see the scratches pulled out or the plaster. I bet there aren't many others in the world who have sanded both sides of a coat of paint. Here I'm loading the speaker and the last one is installed. I can unplug and store it in seconds. Sorry the mold was destroyed as I was going to share it with you all but here's the idea anyway.

sub woof
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250651647.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250651683.jpg

makes the fold down seat more obsolete than the child size rear seat was, may be remove the seat back so it doesn't look so out of place ??

nice start , i have seen others where they angle from the front lip of the rear seat to the floor behind the front seat keeps it out of the way and your rear area clear :cool:

huh - I guess it is pretty rigid.

how much does it weigh and what's the enclosure size?

dood, just buy my Car Audio Innovations sub enclosure for the rear foot wells, and be done with playing with Pam and aluminum foil..........funny you playing with PAM and alum foil........how many hours and hours did that take? grins.

did you drink TANG like the astronauts with Alum Foil on your head too? he heh. Just kidding.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250655817.jpg


complete tuned Sub Enclosure, dual 8" JL audio subs, 240 watt amp, sony deck, 10 dish anti-skip CD changer, total package for sale.............thumping clean audio solution.

or keep up the good work with the resin, pam, and foil.......grins.


more photos of the deck, and total parts list included if requested in this post or on PM, heck even have all the wire looms pre-fabbed for you!

thats it !! :rolleyes:

That's pretty neat, Rob. I"m interested to see how it holds up!

+1 remove the seat top, IMO.

Do you know the volume of it?

Rusty Heap,
how much for the package?

Rusty Heap,

why do you keep the rear seats when you have an audio setup like that???
Seems pointless, not?

Actually, his solution will yield tighter bass than the AI wood enclosure. The AI does let air leak - just the nature of its installation. As Randy pointed out, ANY solution should match the driver with the available air volume. All drivers work their best in a driver-specific air volume.

Ian

For All you fellow 911 stereo lovers, I've got a complete dream system for sale. turn key, even the amp is pre-wire loomed for under the drivers seat.

All owners manuals/documentation included, real simple clean install, even a brand new wire loom for the deck.

Sony AM/FM/CD/MP3 and Ipod controls internal with even a USB port in front and CD changer controls too. 52 watts x 4. This is a stellar great deck that sounds and looks great in a 911.

http://reviews.cnet.com/in-dash-car-...-32330347.html


10 disk Sony CD-changer with 12 second anti-skip memory. Custom fabbed mounts to hang rigid under a front strut bar.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-CDX757MX-.../dp/B00006HOL6

High End audio Carver 240 watt amp for the subwoofer, M-240. Tons of power and runs cool all day.


Rear Subs, 2 x 8" JL audio W3 woofers in black carpeted rear foot well mount panel from Car Audio Innovations. Fits 1976-89. The BEST way to CLEANLY add REAL not fake/phony/weak bass to your 911. Yes this is tight bass, not sloppy. Not boomy but firm and fires right into your lower back.


http://www.caraudioinnovations.com/porsche.htm


I have Polk front door 2 way co-ax speakers included. Geez even these were $200 a pair.

I measured an honest 108 dB with this system at about 1/2 - 2/3rds volume.

Smooth and tight bass, warm mid-range and nice but not shrill ear bleeding top end.


Photos of installation from my 1982 911SC I'm totally parting out. This is a great turn key stereo for your 911

This is a stellar deck / CD changer / Amp / Subs / Door speaker turn key system that even comes with the wire loom to the amp for under the seat and CD changer in the front trunk area behind the glove box.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads14/PB1258231232486626.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads14/P10156271232486654.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads14/PB1258211232486690.jpg

Asking Price $850 shipped to you in CONUS. I've got over $1300 wrapped up in this system. The rear speaker panel is long and heavy, so I'm paying over $100 to ship it all. The panel alone must weight almost 40 pounds.

PM me if interested.

the CAI system looks nice but it is a terrible way to mount a woofer. they need to be in either a sealed box or a ported enclosure, but your choice depends on the woofer's specs. the CAI setup is neither, it is just a face and a top.

not sure who told you that the enclosure is tuned but it is not. if you were to seal it (by making a fiberglass back/sides/bottom) you would have a very noticeable increase in low end response. without getting too technical in here you could seal it and then use aero ports but that would take a lot of time, measuring and some computer work. i spoke with the company that made the 8" subs i am going to be using (elemental designs) and was told that mounting them in the CAI "enclosure" would effectively cut their power handling and response in half.

i just got home with the new 911 and i will be removing the seats and making an enclosure that will look similar to the RS rear seat delete. i'll post pics when the time comes.

I have Rod's (Car Audio Innovations) sub enclosure as well, but I used an open weave carpet over the whole thing, and you can't even see it. I have JBL dual VC woofers with a Harmon Kardon amp driving it at the resulting 2 ohms. It can produce way more SPL than I want.

Let's face it, the rear seats are worthless for most all of us, so using the floorboard for subs, seems to be a good application of space. It's low, in front of the engine, and out of sight.

YRMV.

I had a similar sub setup in my '92 as Rusty Heap. I thought it was perfect for what I wanted. I was able to fit people in the back seat too. :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1146541712.jpg

If you fold down the seat backs, you have a great place to hide a six pack. Or your camera when you have to park at the mall for a few minutes.

I was under the impression that the CAI enclosures were just that, enclosures that were sealed. If they aren't actually enclosed, you are most definitely missing out on response and output. Regardless if they sound decent how they are, they could sound a whole lot better if they were sealed with correctly sized drivers for the internal volume.

Can someone chime in here? Are they actually enclosed or just the top and front face?

Just top & face. The shapes & curves of the footwall area & the center hump make bottom & rear nearly impossible to do in wood.

Plus you would to use up too much air volume. You only have 11 - 12 liters per side so it is precious. I have 8" Focal drivers in a homemade version of the CAI. I damped it & the cavity bottom with a dynamat clone. For the seal around the sides - the air leak area - I used thick window foam that compresses when sealed. It will never seal totally. As above a fibreglass enclosure is the best. But I wasn't about to do that due to the mess factor. I get very good bass, but it could be improved with real enclosures.

My Install

Ian

The perfect response is......................................



is...............

IS?????????????????


audio is one of those things that no Toto, there is no "perfect" response.


a previous post said it best, your milage may vary. PERSONAL tastes.

I own a dB sound level meter.

I own a Pink Noise Generator.

I own several microphones that display 10 bands of frequency response.



we might as well be talking about K&N air filters or Oil types.

run what sounds good to you, sealed box, tuned ported box, open box, no box, heck, with todays IPOD generation and MP3 compression (no I don't own an IPOD or play MP3's, call me old school) and some of you people are talking about frequency response with a MP3 ipod compressed signal source.???????

Call me Dave - I own several 2700 watt Sunfire Subwoofers in the same room for home stereo/theater application, do what you want for the car - waa waa if you think it needs to be boxed/tuned/ported and or blah blah blah......

Honest Home thump here. 2700 honest watts, in a 12" cube, accurate down to 18-20 hz at 116-120 dB......... YUP YUP YUP.......big sound in a small box.

go big or go home. - grins. no offense meant to those still running 6x9" Jensen Triaxles.......they used to rock in 1979.

http://www.sunfire.com/brochures/Sunfire+XT%20Brochure.Rev11.2.06.pdf


http://www.sunfire.com/productdetail.asp?id=9

Nothin wrong with an iPod. They'll still hold your AIFF music. But then there are those that insist it has to be analog to be proper. Different strokes and all that...

I was just looking to find out if the AI product actually "creates a sealed enclosure" as they indicate on their web site. Yes, audio is subjective and most hear differently than others. An auto environment, by its nature, is a compromise. Especially in these small, noisy cars. I have experience in pro audio installation, but in my advancing years my hearing is degrading - can't hear past 16 kHz any more. That being said, I can hear a difference if in a sealed box or not.

Just trying to be an educated consumer.

you don't even need a box to make decent bass.
you just need to keep the out of phase sound waves from the back of the speaker from coming around the sides of the basket or speaker frame and cancelling out the equal frequency sound waves from the front of a speaker.

just mount a decent 6" or bigger speaker on a sheet of plywood, play it and listen... it's called an infinite baffle.

you'll never hear the difference over road, wind, engine, and tire noise.

but if you paid alot for it you'll think you do so your ego feels good about the $ spent.

My opinion
 

I think you spent some good time on that box. I purchased this and have never been happer. The seats sit on the box so anyone looking inside the car would never know. You can even pack luggage on top of it... just did for Monterey last weekend.

Before it was carpeted and installed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250734967.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250734992.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250735012.jpg

After, the flash never does black carpet justice...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250735068.jpg

not every sub can be run IB. actually, most sound terrible when you try it. ok maybe not terrible but no where near what they can do. i would bet my car that if you listened to a set of 8" subs in the CAI "enclosure" and then again with it sealed the difference would be night and day.


you got a tl rusty?


-edit-

here is a listing that shows what the CAI "encolsure" is... $400 for a pre-cut piece of mdf with some carpet.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-930-911s-Stealth-Sub-Woofer-Enclosure_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em 14QQhashZitem3a51e807c1QQitemZ250482264001QQptZCar Q5fSpeakers

I put a stainless steel muffler on with an 84 mm tip, opened up the air cleaner box and added a cat bypass. I can't remember what my stereo used to sound like. It's been a while.

x98boardwell - that looks interesting - what is it called & where did you get it?

is it FG?

I like educating people, and learning from them too. As I said, I don't own an IPOD, nor even know what AIFF even means. So I do need to read up on it, but I do know what my instruments read when measuring freq response and dB's. Tight verse muddy bass can even be subjective.

a good read here:.

http://members.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/ipod/Compression/compression.html


yes with audio, there is no "one" perfect answer.

aiff is a different form of an audio file with better sq. other versions that are comparable to a cd are flac and apple alac (my personal choice) which is a true lossless compression, but compression is not the best choice of terms.

What it is
 

The box is made from Audio Innovations in CA. I think they sell it for around $1,200 but I could be wrong. I bought it for $300 at a swap meet and put $120 for carpet and wiring with my JBL's which of course cost extra. I bought it mainly so I can have the sunroof and windows open at highway speeds and still hear good quality sounding music.

Bryan

I obviously need to do something about my muffler/exhaust, because it is so damn loud that all off this heavy audio stuff won't do a damn thing as long as my engine is running and I'm driving:D

---

Tom '75 targa

AIFF = Audio Interchange File Format. It's basically an uncompressed audio file directly from the CD. Its similar to WAV, but not Windoze specific. I'm a Mac guy and used to work with audio a fair amount in the olden days, and everything was AIFF. It's not a mac specific format but is often found there. Its easily convertible to red book format for CD audio.

As the original poster, it has been very interesting watching this thread evolve. Some critical comments, attempts to sell other systems, how my box could be improved, and audiophile discussions concerning the perfect bass response with no expense spared have taken this thread to an unintended galaxy far far away.
The philosophy behind the construction was to build a box that provided clear bass, was economical, didn't alter the usefulness of the back seat and was easily reversible. I successfully met those objectives. The bass response is fantastic with no vibration, allowing clarity to differentiate the difference between a bass drum and a bass guitar.
I already owned the speaker, had some fiberglass and MDF in stock so my cost was minimal. It was labor intensive but being retired I have all the time I need. Not counting the speaker and amp, you certainly could make one for less than $40.00.
We occasionally carry two young grandchildren or our 13 pound dog, so it is important not to alter the usefulness of the back seat. The carpet and the grill over the speaker prevents the dog from damaging the speaker and the fact that I can pull it out in seconds and store it in the trunk frees up the seat if needed.
If you like it or not is not important to me, I just thought that the construction technique may be appreciated. It would work for any car to make an enclosure where there is an odd shaped space available.
Cheers, Rob


'Tis better to have loved a short woman than never to have loved a tall

Heh heh, welcome to Pelican Rob! Don't let it get to you. As forums go, Pelican is far and away the best. You'll find out that threads can take on a life of their own (search for "How many Pelicans does it take to change a light bulb?" for a more humorous look at how this happens). Sometimes you have to reign things back in to keep on topic as you've done here.

Back on topic... Nice work. Neat, functional and doesn't disrupt the integrity of the car. Well done!

Yup, I salute the post starter for sharing his creative talents.

........and I do want to retract one of my earlier statments.........."aluminum foil worn on the head is inneffective against mind control and disturbing voices from exterior sources. Use TINFOIL instead."

More research has uncovered this fact, I read it on the internet, so it has to be true

I quote; "USE OF ALUMINUM WILL FACILITATE MENTAL INSTABILITY MAKING THE WEARER MORE SUSEPTABLE TO MIND CONTROL RAYS!!! The best metallic hats to use are molded TINFOIL lined with circular dispersal radiators (items that resemble the springs found in retractable fountain pens.) These springs should be placed every 1/4 inch and all turned opposite directions of each other... one turning clockwise, one turning counter clockwise, etc.

Remember, ALUMINUM KILLS. This is serious, I AM NOT A KOOK!!! YOU MUST LISTEN TO ME, I AM ONLY TRYING HELP!!! "


My source: http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Foil-Deflector-Beanie-Protection/dp/1581603762#

The CAI panel is not sealed on any side other than the front. The top is simply the carpet. The bottom, sides and over the hump are just a good appoximate fit. Sure it could be better with some sort of foam, but in the true sense, the wood front is all that's sealed.

That said, it's a great fit, looks great, sounds great, and almost invisible.

z box rear side panel enclosures
 

Hi All,
Interesting conversation,I wanted to see if any one had used the Z box enclosures on the rear side panels, they use 7 inch subs in sealed enclosures each side
I will try posting some pics of these as well as the rear enclosure for seperates on the rear deck

Still looking for a set of ads 325is to complete that period sound

Chris

It would be helpful if people posted on technical issues here on the 911 technical board, and confined their rants on other topics to PARF.

Okay, spot on technical Audio commentary then. My knob goes to 11. and reproduces 18 hz and 110 dB at that setting, using several methods of bass audio reproduction.

for good Bass you need to move air. Simple as that. push pull push says the driver in tight form.


I'm sure the prior poster RWebb has always been accurately posting in the right arena and all forums and all posts both Technical and Off Topic for all 9 thousand 7 hundred and 45 posts I'm sure............has to be.........

So thank you Rwebb for keeping this post active and at the top of the list and on point.

Putting my TinFoil Hat back on to keep the other voices at bay, unsubscribing from this thread.

cheers to all, thump thump thump.

SHHHHH, everyone be very quiet, the thread police have arrived! :D

On a serious note....
I've seen folks build custom enclosures using an old t-shirt, stretched to fit some 3D shape and then Fiberglass resin is applied to set it up. From there, fiberglass matting is applied with more resin for strength. End result would be very similar to the OP's clever use of readily available building materials.

And again less serious........with its solid construction, you could use it for a wheel chock for a semi or boat anchor if such a need arises :D

this is very technical and porsche oriented so ... a bump a bump bump

if not intrested in the audio end of the p-tech quickly go to the top right of your screen and close the window violently.

personally i have the blau brisbane 48 a media deck w/ sd on front and usb out the back lwith 6x9 tri at rear deck 6.5 component at the doors, polk audio speakers around, looking for a little bost with an amp , still like to hear the motor but thats why there is a mute button

when you are young loud music is a need
when you are old its a need to hear it :cool:

I think this is why no one buys from you... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/493234-issue-rusty-heap.html?highlight=rusty+heap

Talk about being off topic. :rolleyes: