What 10 Questions would you ask before getting an engine built to ensure quality?

[StuttgartNut]

Well i was just wondering what kind of stuff you would ask concerning your most precious thing.. The pcar! How they would ensure quality and being done right? Not gonna have problems later on after the warranty? Just give me some idea's!

Also what are things that are a very most certain that they replace like headstuds ect.?


Thanks

[ffilips]

How about, how long will you be in business after the rebuild is done? Had mine done by Paul Weir, oops. I'm confident they did a first rate job but so much for the warranty.

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69 911t
86 951

[Hatari]

Or, If I tackle this myself, at least I'll know what was done and the quality that was put into it...

Just did a 2.7 (with some quality counseling) and I'm really glad I did it. My coach's first advice was to buy the fty. service manuals, which I did and it wasn't that difficult. I did a complete top-end.

Jack McAllister

[lucky77]

Quality of machine work...(who's doing it)?

[Mark 69 911]

Hatari, During your re-build was the timing chain an easy task?......how about dialing in the cams?....
Regards, Mark

[pwd72s]

Do I have a LOT of faith in the people I'm taking my car to? Of course, I ask myself this question...and it's the biggie, IMHO.

[Hatari]

Mark,
I didn't split my cases, so I re-used my chains. With the engine out, the hydraulic chain tensioner upgrade was very straightforward and went well. I'd say that anyone with solid mechanical aptitude will be comfortable with the upgrade installation. It can be done with engine in, it'll just be close quarters. No special toos required for that. The timing of the cams scared me a little at first...I had really never used a dial indicator before and what you don't know sometimes is intimidating. Once I realized that what I was doing coincided with the factory service manual, it bacame simple. The tough part of the cam timing turned out to be torquing the cam nuts by myself. That took a 1/2" torque wrench with a 44mm socket and a 3/4" breaker bar with a 1-13/16" socket on it. One in each hand and pulling against each other to get to 72 ft./lbs.
I wouldn't hesitate performing another top-end if necessary (hopefully on a different 911 engine). My rebuild took about 2 months (working only on weekends and scheduling parts in as needed). The $2,500 I saved in labor was important to me, but more importantly, I now know exactly the condition of my engine internals and know exactly what has been attended to. I haven't added up the receipts yet, but I'll guess the parts and head work labor will come to a little over $1,500. That was for the tensioner upgrade, reconditioning the heads, new valves, new valve guides, reground Solex cams, complete head set, 2 sets of head gaskets/base gaskets (I pulled it down after the first assembly to make sure my cir-clips on the piston pins were secure...they were, but I couldn't stand the thought of one coming out), new OEM decals, miscellaneous specialty tools (at least $100), Loctite 518 (not cheap), clutch/pp/bearing set, miscellaneous hoses, etc.

I started the engine Sunday afternoon 24 hours after expoxying the bottom center seam of the cases. What rewarding music the 2.7 made. Glad I did this myself.

[Obin Robinson]

1) where are your race cars?
2) may i see them?
3) how many poles, wins, DNSs, or DNFs did each car get?
4) how many hours before rebuild?
5) where are your sponsor stickers?
6) may i have a sponsor sticker after you finish this engine?
7) where are your engine build plates, and may i have one bolted on when the rebuild is done?
8) how long have you been building engines?
9) how many hours can i expect out of this engine?
10) how long is the warranty?

if they can't put together a high-endurance racing engine, then i don't want them turning one wrench on my car. if they can build good racing engines, then they will have the attention to detail to put together good street engines.

if i had a 911, i'd send my engine to Andial to get a rebuild. that's a place i can trust.

obin

[Hellgate]

Why does not having build a "race" motor preclude a mechanic/shop? That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. There are many very good mechanics who don't build race motors.

A friend of mine had his Turbo rebuilt by a "Racing Shop" and it was a POS. He had to have it rebuilt again by another shop.

I would be concerned with:

How long the shop has been in business.

What is the warrenty.

How many 911 motors have the done.

Give me a list of references to call.

I would also run the other way if the mechanic is promissing BS hp figures for things like air filters.

Good Luck,

Pete

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by Hellgate:
Why does not having build a "race" motor preclude a mechanic/shop? That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. There are many very good mechanics who don't build race motors.

A friend of mine had his Turbo rebuilt by a "Racing Shop" and it was a POS. He had to have it rebuilt again by another shop.
Pete

well, the question was what 10 things would you ask before getting an engine built to insure quality. did your friend ask those 10 questions to the racing shop that rebuilt his motor?

racing motors reuqire a level of precision and attention to detail that most engine mechanics will not have to deal with. true that just because you can build a racing motor doesn't mean you can build a GOOD racing motor. by asking the 10 questions i alluded to, you would be able to separate the winners from the losers. there are shops that don't specialize in racing, but they have mechanics there that can build one heck of a mean racing motor. this sort of thing applies if you ask my 10 questions. i know of 3 local mechanics that are some of the best in the business, they all have experience putting together some very impressive track machines. every time i bring my cars to them, they return in perfect running order. there's other businesses out there that look like they are "foreign car specialist" but upon closer inspection i would not trust them to put together a Radio Flyer wagon.

a few weeks ago, i had a Porsche racing team mechanic tell me "send your engine over to Alwin Springer. he will make sure the job is done right but it ain't gonna be cheap."

any engine builder that is willing to stand by their work will have a plate available for you to affix to the block, or the cylinder head. if they don't have these then they will have sponsor stickers. here are some good examples of companies that do this:

Andial
Hertel
Robert Yates
Engine Developments, Ltd
Porsche Motorsports North America
Katech
McLaren Performance
Moroso

they stand by their product so much they're willing to put a little badge that says "hey everyone, WE did this." to me that counts a lot more than someone you never heard of that for all you know has never worked on any high performance engine before.

here's a few examples of quality engines that have neen assembled by people that really knew what they were doing. you should be able to see the engine builder's badge in each photo. yes, i took these:

Spice Ferrari http://209.150.235.158:8585/grandam/grand-am/spice%20ferrari%202.jpg

Porsche GT3RS
http://209.150.235.158:8585/grandam/grand-am/porsche%20idling.jpg

Nissan R90CP
http://209.150.235.158:8585/grandam/grand-am/from%20a%20nissan%20motor.jpg

Lola Judd
http://209.150.235.158:8585/grandam/lola%20judd%20prep.jpg

if you look at the facilities that these engines are assembled in, it puts your local corner shop to shame. i trust a shop that can work on an endurance racing Porsche a bit more than i trust someone that can simply read a manual. it takes me about 5 minutes to "scope" a place out and determine if i trust them working on my cars or not.

any person that is not willing to stand by their work is one that you should stay away from, no matter the car, no matter the service. any racing shop that doesn't stand by their work should not be trusted.

i would trust these guys over a local person any day, unless the local person can brag a better service can be offered:

http://www.mcrracing.com/

http://www.katechengines.com/

http://www.engdev.com

http://www.mclarenperformance.com/main.html

true that it ain't gonna be cheap, but they are also going to know something about engines that your local Mobil station doesn't know. none of those businesses will let a product leave their shop if unless it is perfect. their reputation is at stake over everything they make and do and they can't afford to have someone say "i sent my Porsche to xyz to get the engine done and it was the worst thing ever." there are racing shops that went out of business when they started doing substandard work. all it takes is one bad job and your reputation is permanently tarnished.

did your friend ask those 10 questions? which Racing Shop was it?

obin

[This message has been edited by Obin Robinson (edited 06-13-2001).]