Turn Signal Relay 81 911

[Mainegrl]

I have an '81 911 Targa. Every time the turn signal switch lever on the column is moved, the fuse blows soi I essentially have no directionals. I thought I'd replace the relay. Is that relay this one

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/91161510901.htm?pn=911-615-109-01-INT

or this one?

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/1H0953227.htm?pn=1H0-953-227-M206&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw59q2BhBOEiwAKc0ijS1uqFvqEqvr22Sa6a4l 0NqbJKXg7P6NTiQRDi_Hl6ivLzR04YyvrxoCP_8QAvD_BwE

Both come up in a search. I'd rather ask here and be sure I'm buying the right one.

Thanks.

[spoke]

While it is technically feasible that the flasher relay could internally cause a short to ground, it is unlikely that is your issue. The flasher relay is nothing but a contact relay to apply 12V to the turnsignal bulbs.

Does the fuse blowing happen on the left side or right side or both?

Was anything changed on the car recently? Any work done? Bulbs changed? When did this start happening?

[Mainegrl]

An oil change was done earlier this season and the accelerator linkage was repaired a few days ago but the turn signal issue existed since the accelerator repair.

In the spring, maybe the second time out after winter storage, the car wouldn't start after driving it 10 miles and then sitting for an hour. I have owned this car for 8 years and I have no history of it ever not starting right up as soon as the key is turned and that's even after every long, cold New England winter sitting in storage. After sitting by the roadside that day for an hour and a half, combing through the owner's manual for answers and looking at and touching fuses and relays all of a sudden the car started on one of the many tries that morning. I did not know why but it continued to act normally after that until about 3 weeks later. I will note that I did find 2 fuses blown though and the only thing I noticed not working was the clock . I'm not 100% if I noticed the directionals not working that same morning but very soon around this time, I did. I did not have fuses to replace those 2 immediately and it took NAPA about a week to get them in for me. The clock function returned but not the directionals. So like I was saying, about 3 weeks after that first early spring breakdown, after driving about 15 miles and then going in to a store for about 15-20 minutes the car would not start again. It turned over fine and strong like always. I checked the spark, it was fine. It sounded like it wasn't getting gas, though I could hear the fuel pump start with every attempt. I was in a parking lot of a large mall, a man came over to help, at one point he put his hand in the area of the accelerator linkage in the engine area and found it un-attached. He asked me if I had a thing for a pony tail which I did, like many woman, we often have those on us even if we're not wearing our hair in a pony tail that moment. He wrapped it around the linkage and sure enough, the car started right up. It took another 3 1/2 weeks before I could an appointment with my mechanic to fix it more properly but I used the car regularly like that the whole time with no issues except the lack of directionals still. I checked the fuses again after replacing the 2 blown ones, turned them around in their holders but missed seeing anything blown. I did take out the red relay both times I broke down and played with the prongs trying to open them up more. On the 2nd breakdown, one of the four parts of 1 prong broke off and I've been driving the car like that since because I've been looking for a non Chinese one. I found a Wehrle on ebay and purchased it but to have the seller cancel the sale- I assume, since it was used, he checked it before shipping and found it not good. I just found out about forum member 914Rubber's US production of this relay and have one on the way to me now. However, the car still starts and runs fine except for the turn signal issue. As I write this at 4am, I am not sure if it is left, right or both sides. I will try to determine that when it gets light out. I read a thread about someone else's turn signal shorting fuses and it was suggested to start with replacing the relay. Since it's relatively inexpensive at $25 I thought that was a better place to start than with a new $400 plus labor (OUCH!) turn signal switch which is what my mechanic was planning on doing. Yesterday I asked him to check his records because I believe we replaced that sometime around when I first bought the car and considering that I put about 500 miles a year on this car, it seemed too soon to be worn out already though I understand it could be. One more thing I will note, I do not have the stock steering wheel on my car. I changed that big ugly plastic black thing for a nice wood Moto about 7 years ago which did cause the directional switch lever to work a little differently on one side, I'm not 100% but I think it's for a right turn, so pushing up. Anyhow, it sometimes has to be pushed 2 or sometimes 3 times to stay on, it shuts off before I make the turn, needing convincing to stay in the blinking position but I've lived with it. Funny, my '94 Ford F250 does the same thing and it's all stock.

[spoke]

This is your response broken up into sentences and paragraphs. My mind goes numb when there's large paragraphs.


In the spring, maybe the second time out after winter storage, the car wouldn't start after driving it 10 miles and then sitting for an hour.

I have owned this car for 8 years and I have no history of it ever not starting right up as soon as the key is turned and that's even after every long, cold New England winter sitting in storage.

After sitting by the roadside that day for an hour and a half, combing through the owner's manual for answers and looking at and touching fuses and relays all of a sudden the car started on one of the many tries that morning.

I did not know why but it continued to act normally after that until about 3 weeks later. I will note that I did find 2 fuses blown though and the only thing I noticed not working was the clock.

I'm not 100% if I noticed the directionals not working that same morning but very soon around this time, I did. I did not have fuses to replace those 2 immediately and it took NAPA about a week to get them in for me. The clock function returned but not the directionals.

So like I was saying, about 3 weeks after that first early spring breakdown, after driving about 15 miles and then going in to a store for about 15-20 minutes the car would not start again. It turned over fine and strong like always.

I checked the spark, it was fine. It sounded like it wasn't getting gas, though I could hear the fuel pump start with every attempt.

I was in a parking lot of a large mall, a man came over to help, at one point he put his hand in the area of the accelerator linkage in the engine area and found it un-attached. He asked me if I had a thing for a pony tail which I did, like many woman, we often have those on us even if we're not wearing our hair in a pony tail that moment. He wrapped it around the linkage and sure enough, the car started right up.

It took another 3 1/2 weeks before I could an appointment with my mechanic to fix it more properly but I used the car regularly like that the whole time with no issues except the lack of directionals still.

I checked the fuses again after replacing the 2 blown ones, turned them around in their holders but missed seeing anything blown. I did take out the red relay both times I broke down and played with the prongs trying to open them up more.

On the 2nd breakdown, one of the four parts of 1 prong broke off and I've been driving the car like that since because I've been looking for a non Chinese one. I found a Wehrle on ebay and purchased it but to have the seller cancel the sale-

I assume, since it was used, he checked it before shipping and found it not good. I just found out about forum member 914Rubber's US production of this relay and have one on the way to me now. However, the car still starts and runs fine except for the turn signal issue.

As I write this at 4am, I am not sure if it is left, right or both sides. I will try to determine that when it gets light out. I read a thread about someone else's turn signal shorting fuses and it was suggested to start with replacing the relay.

Since it's relatively inexpensive at $25 I thought that was a better place to start than with a new $400 plus labor (OUCH!) turn signal switch which is what my mechanic was planning on doing.

Yesterday I asked him to check his records because I believe we replaced that sometime around when I first bought the car and considering that I put about 500 miles a year on this car, it seemed too soon to be worn out already though I understand it could be.

One more thing I will note, I do not have the stock steering wheel on my car. I changed that big ugly plastic black thing for a nice wood Moto about 7 years ago which did cause the directional switch lever to work a little differently on one side, I'm not 100% but I think it's for a right turn, so pushing up.

Anyhow, it sometimes has to be pushed 2 or sometimes 3 times to stay on, it shuts off before I make the turn, needing convincing to stay in the blinking position but I've lived with it.

Funny, my '94 Ford F250 does the same thing and it's all stock.

[Mainegrl]

Yes, besides being a good editor, do you have any suggestions for me. Driving without directionals is really dangerous

[PeteKz]

How many miles on the car? That will give an indication of what is likely worn. As you noted, if the turn signal switch was replaced within the last 5000 miles, it should not be worn out. Has it lived most of its life in areas that use salt on the roads? This will give an indication of how much corrosion is present.

As you noted, you need to find out whether the turn signal problem is on one side or both sides.

Have you checked he bulbs? Sometimes when a bulb burns out, the filament falls across the internal posts and greatly increases the current draw, causing the fuses to blow.

[Mainegrl]

I have been so busy, I haven't put a new fuse in to get answers to these questions. I'm going to do that now!

Before I bought it about 7 years ago, it lived in very dry Arizona. I had it shipped to Maine. It is always garaged year round and put in storage from early November, before any snow or ice appears and comes out in April after it has rained a lot so no salt is present on the roads. It is wiped down carefully all over, wheel wells, under bumpers, etc everytime I use it before going back in the garage.

It has 105,000 miles. My mechanic has obviously been busy too as he hasn't called me back to let me know if his records show we replaced that turn signal switch once already.

[PeteKz]

Let us know what happens.

Follow-on questions: Do you have a Volt-Ohm meter? Are you able to troubleshoot electrical stuff? Are you willing to learn? It's not hard, and I recommend you learn to do this yourself, not just to save money, but also to save time in the long run. Most mechanics who are less than about 40 years old don't do this very well, as they are accustomed to scanning error codes to find problems, rather than using a meter.

[Mainegrl]

Well, let me lead with, I found a dangling yellow wire in my fuse box. I don't know where it goes and I'd like to fix it. It is the 2nd fuse from the right. I'd like to post a picture but I don't understand how. When I click the photo icon it says add url of photos. I don't have an url. I just have my photos saved in Photos on my Macbook.

Now the rest of what I know from from investigating on Sunday.
There are two 5amp fuses for the directionals, one going to the left, the other for the right, neither are blown but I have no turn signals.

There is one 15amp fuse for the flashers. That is the one blowing but the hazards still work. This fuse blows immediately upon starting the car, without even turning on the hazards or the directionals.

I put a new flasher fuse in and the second the car started up, it blew again. But the turn signal fuses did not blow then or even when I tried them. But they don’t work.
But the hazard lights work even with their fuse blown.

Yes I have a volt meter and am willing to learn how to use it. I'm all ears. I want to take my car out, there's so little left to the season!!

[spoke]

Originally Posted by Mainegrl

But the hazard lights work even with their fuse blown.

So the hazard lights work? Both indicators in the tach light up and flash?

All 4 corners of exterior bulbs light up and flash?

If so this is good. There are 2 fuses which can power the turnsignals. One powers the turnsignals when 4-ways are off, and the other powers the turnsignals when 4-ways are on.

You say one fuse pops when the ignition is turned on, correct? And you think this is for the turnsignals?

Try this test:
Install a good fuse.
Turn on the 4-way flashers
Start car and see if the fuse that has been blowing pops.
If the fuse doesn't pop, then turn off 4-ways and see if the fuse blows.

Just trying to isolate the issue.

[spoke]

Originally Posted by Mainegrl

I'd like to post a picture but I don't understand how. When I click the photo icon it says add url of photos. I don't have an url. I just have my photos saved in Photos on my Macbook.

What you were clicking on is if there's a picture on the web you want to include.

When you write a comment, you have a choice of 'POST QUICK REPLY' or 'GO ADVANCED'

Select GO ADVANCED. Under the typing area should be a button called 'Click Here to Upload Photos'. You can use this to add photos from your phone or computer.

[Mainegrl]

So here's what it looks like when the hazards lights are flashing.
And not the yellow wire disconnected on fuse 2. Pleas tell me where that goes.

[Mainegrl]

Ok, I'm down to one last red 15 amp fuse, I will try what you said and order more from the Napa in my town.

This red 15a fuse that pops when starting the car is listed as for the flashers not either turn signal. It is in the fuse box after the 2 white 5a fuses for the left and right turn signals.

Let's get that yellow hanging wire where it belongs.

[Mainegrl]

I did not try the test with the flashers on and off before starting the car yet but I drove the car over to my mechanic on Monday to find where the yellow wire went and put it back where it belonged with the license plate light fuse- which is now working again.

Also, the mechanic came out with a tester and after we did a few things here and there, I wish I had remembered to do the test you suggested, but we think its the backup light switch. Turns out the backup lights are not working either. That switch is under the car and that connector has been loose once before. I forgot about that but was reminded when we read a wiring diagram together. The flasher / turn signal circuit leads back to the back up light.
You have to get the car up on a lift to look at that switch so it's going back this morning to go on the lift and take a looksie.

[Mainegrl]

It's still at the mechanics. He's so busy he hasn't gotten it up on the lift yet. Ugh.

[JSV798]

[QUOTE=Mainegrl;12327142]

Turns out the backup lights are not working either./QUOTE]

Backup lights are on the same fuse as flasher relay: #11, which would explain why they are not working either. So fault could be with backup light switch shorting and not related to flashers at all?

Roy