Porsche Greener than a Prius

[ahcheemjoe]

Pelicanites. I spent a lot of time on this forum doing research for a story I published in Slate today. Thanks for the help from members. Hope you guys like the story. Joe
How a Porsche can be better for the environment than a Prius. - By Joe Eaton - Slate Magazine

[initial]

Great read! It "almost" convinced me to sell my V8 commuter.

[sc_rufctr]

Great story. Thanks...

[tharbert]

I thought you were going to make this comparison:



vs.


(Pic posted by Paul Woodbury in the Random pics thread)

Otherwise, enjoyed the article.

[RNajarian]

I know for a fact that over the life of a car a Porsche is greener than a Prius.

The biggest cost to the environment of ANY car is the manufacture and recycling of the car. Cars with a lifespan of 10 years are more harmful to the environment than a car with a 30 year lifespan.

The Prius battery is nasty. The lithium nickel is toxic. The area surrounding the plant that mines the raw materials is deforested because of these nasty elements.

Plus how frequently does the battery pack need to be replaced? 5-7 years? How much? $4000?

Porsche brags 67% of every Porsche ever made is still on the road. Toyota cannot even come near that figure.

In 30 years it is very likely a 2005 911 will still be on the road. Most likely a 2005 Prius will be sitting in a landfill. And should the 911 get totaled it is very likely it will get picked clean for parts, being sold here at Pelican on the used parts forum.

My commuter car is a 2000 Boxster. I get 28-33 MPG highway. In 5 years I've gone 100,000 miles with no major maintenance issues.

So if you want to save the planet, buy an old Porsche and keep her well maintained

[crater64]

"I loved it, it was better than Cats. I want to read it again and again."

Well written and concise enough for the target audience. I was waiting for the part where putting the hot rod fund into an early 911 would've done better than putting it into the S&P 500 over the same time period.

Thanks for sharing.

edit: I made the mistake of reading the associated Fray. Lot of wet blankets over there...

[mpetry]

Especially the part about how "driving for most people means idling in traffic while sitting inside the automotive equivalent of a washing machine". Like Joe, public transportation (bus, ferry) plus my bicycle are my "daily drivers". But a sunny afternoon is a great time to enjoy a few miles of pure driving pleasure.

Here's another example - my friend Steve takes you around a reservoir in western Connecticut in his '68 Targa. I've driven this car on this loop and it's as good as it gets.

YouTube - Porsche walkaround

YouTube - Steve's Porsche 912 Ride around the hills of Connecticut - Part 1

YouTube - Steve's Porsche 912 Ride - Part 3

[carnutzzz]

Good piece.

I know it wasn't a technical piece- but did you research the "greenness" of public transportation? Everything I've read says buses/trains spew more pollution than if everyone in there was in their own car. Of course, this would lead to more cars on the road, more idling for other drivers, etc. Tough to quantify no doubt.

Keep it up...

[dtw]

Was finished at "popped collar"

[carnutzzz]

Originally Posted by dtw

Was finished at "popped collar"

Lighten up, Nancy.

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

. . .

Porsche brags 67% of every Porsche ever made is still on the road. Toyota cannot even come near that figure.

. . .

The newer Porsches are going to wreck that statistic after some time passes.

The plastic/electronics infested late models won't be financially realistic to keep on the road.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

I know for a fact ....

The biggest cost to the environment of ANY car is the manufacture and recycling of the car. Cars with a lifespan of 10 years are more harmful to the environment than a car with a 30 year lifespan.
...

- what is your source for such "facts"?

reliable estimates I have seen are that the manf. impacts for a new car = ~~ 1 year's worth of fuel

the toxicity of the batteries is obviated by recycling them

there is a LOT of disinformation put out on this topic, so I would like to see where you are getting these "facts"

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by carnutzzz

... Everything I've read says buses/trains spew more pollution than if everyone in there was in their own car. ...

are you talking about particulate pollution from the diesel engines in buses vs. the gas engines in most cars??

in general, the pollution from mass transit is vastly lower than that from cars per passenger mile -- even a jet plane is a lot lower pollution than a car trip

I have to wonder where you guys are getting all this stuff...

[Rrrockhound]

Many Prius drivers I see drive well above the speed limit. Maybe they can do it for less gas than I can, but if they're really committed to saving gas, why not slow down a little?

[Winter]

I'm not going to talk about the "facts" because as a journalist who has written and shot photos for everyone from the LA Times to my local ski town newspaper (which is a freebie) I know that there are as many "facts" and "statistics" as you need to back any kind of argument you want to make about the greening of America via electric cars, etc.

Besides, that's not what this story is about. If you want a scientific examination of the real carbon cost of cars -old vs. new vs public transportation- go find that story, and share the link, because we'll all want to see it. (and probably 75% of us will fall asleep reading it).

I loved this story. It's excellent. The entire concept of saving money to get the real chocolate chip cookie - good for the soul - versus the mindless commute stuck in traffic (the oreo, perhaps?) in something that isn't inspiring to drive is beautiful. I'd love to read more of your stuff, it's really good. Keep it up and good luck finding the right car.

---

Tom '75 targa
Tom Winter Media

[RWebb]

I like the story also and it points out the vlaue of mitigation.

I've already researched this and 'shared the link' -- some time ago.

[johndglynn]

I drive a Prius and find it a very nice car to do miles in. I also have some Porsches and we all know they are fun. The two brands live quite happily together in my house. As someone who sees life through a number of different windscreens, all this "mine is greener than yours" stuff is a total waste of time.

Cars are only as green as the user wants them to be. The Prius has 370 miles to do tomorrow, picking up bargain sports seats and dropping off Porsche parts, but will it do it all at 55mph? Of course not. Likewise, the '76 911 does 18 mpg, so will I use it do 5,000 miles a year in a country where gas is $9/10 a gallon? Of course not.

If you can look at your kids, and live with your choices that may impact on their futures, then that is all there is to it for me, goes for lots more than the cars I drive. No prejudice here towards anyone who wants to save themselves money and get an easier drive and more rear space for the kids into the bargain.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by johndglynn

As someone who sees life through a number of different windscreens, all this "mine is greener than yours" stuff is a total waste of time.

Totally agreed. Should I feel better because I work out of a home office and hardly drive during the week? Or Worse because I own two cars, but spend a lot of time in airplanes traveling across the pond to Europe. Am I evil? Would a boat be better?

And then I'm in an industry where global warming could put us all out of business with higher snow levels and shorter winters. . . (oh, dear God, I've now started a debate about global warming. . . )

By the way, I like the site: John Glynn's Blog | 911 Porsche tales & other stories

Nice.

---

Tom '75 targa
Tom Winter Media

[Eric 88 Carrera]

Nobody has considered the visual pollution being put out by the Prius. That has to be considered.

And, besides more and more stories are documenting the fraud that the Green Weenies have perpetrated, from James Hansens being caught doctoring data to the cherry picked tree ring data (small samples and ignored data that undercut the conclusion) that was used to develop the hockey stick graph. With record lows and early snow fall records, anyone amused that the Weenies are now calling it Global Climate change? They are now able to politicize the weather whether it gets warmer or colder.

You gotta love Watermelons - Green on the outside, but red in the middle!

[carnutzzz]

Originally Posted by RWebb

are you talking about particulate pollution from the diesel engines in buses vs. the gas engines in most cars??

in general, the pollution from mass transit is vastly lower than that from cars per passenger mile -- even a jet plane is a lot lower pollution than a car trip

I have to wonder where you guys are getting all this stuff...

"According to the U.S. Department of Transportation, the average public transit vehicle in the U.S. operates with more than 80% of its seats empty. Energy consumption per passenger mile is now greater for buses than for private cars, and much greater than for car or van pools."

Bestselling author Michael Fumento reports: "The U.S. Mass Transit Dilemma."

There are all kinds of articles out there that support this. I think I read about it sometime this year in C&D as well.