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-   Porsche 911 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/)
-   -   Real Fuchs vs. Replicas (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/507922-real-fuchs-vs-replicas.html)

TheSt|G 08-26-2015 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zestys1 (Post 8764570)
Have a set they are lighter then fuchs
That would be worrisome given that they are cast.

McLaren-TAG 08-26-2015 07:30 AM
The new real deal Fuchsfelge seem pretty light.

Front: 17x7 ET55 | 16.5lbs | $698
Rear: 17x8 ET52 | 17lbs | $738
Rear: 17x9 ET55 | 17.5lbs | $778

Ayles 08-26-2015 07:54 AM
I just took delivery on a pair of Euromeister 16x9. Each box weighed 23lbs. There was a thin foam sheet and piece of cardboard. I doubt packing materials weighed more than 1.5lbs.

TheSt|G 08-26-2015 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayles (Post 8768162)
I just took delivery on a pair of Euromeister 16x9. Each box weighed 23lbs. There was a thin foam sheet and piece of cardboard. I doubt packing materials weighed more than 1.5lbs.
So they are substantially heavier than real Fuchs.

Josh D 08-26-2015 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G (Post 8768244)
So they are substantially heavier than real Fuchs.
What's substantially heavier?

My 16X8 Euromeisters were only a couple pounds heavier than my 16X7 Fuchs.

tharbert 08-26-2015 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh D (Post 8768391)
What's substantially heavier?

My 16X8 Euromeisters were only a couple pounds heavier than my 16X7 Fuchs.
A couple pounds (~10%) a rim? That's substantial for rolling weight. Half that would be troublesome. A quarter of that would be pesky.

TheSt|G 08-26-2015 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh D (Post 8768391)
What's substantially heavier?

My 16X8 Euromeisters were only a couple pounds heavier than my 16X7 Fuchs.
16x7 Fuchs are a little under 15lbs a peice, 16x8 Fuchs are 15lbs 5oz. 16x8 Euromeisters are 22lbs a piece, making them more than 40% heavier than either. That's a pretty big penalty, especially as we are talking about unsprung weight.


With a good wheel you get to pick two of the following traits:

Light
Strong
Cheap

With a bad wheel you get one or none. Euromeisters certainly check the cheap box, and might check the strong box. They weigh enough for cast wheels to be somewhat promising in that regard, but there certainly isn't any definitive information.

Jim Egan 08-26-2015 02:31 PM
patz, a "dead give away" of what? Read "twistoffat" above, if "he" is correct it's relevant. As I stated above, I've had two individuals that deal in Porsche parts deem them "original", I'm just wanting to NOT misrepresent the wheels since my intent is to sell them. Jim

zedsn 08-26-2015 03:19 PM
I just called automotion where I got my 17" wheels and a 16x8 is 20 pounds right from the horses mouth.

HarryD 08-26-2015 03:31 PM
Jim. I have no idea if your wheels are genuine Fuchs. However, I find it disturbing that you do not include a picture of the cast in mark that looks like a fox head (which is their symbol). Typically, high end manufacturers include trademark Item like that to help detect fakes.

If it was me, I would post at the Early 911S Registry and give them a chance to tear you apart. There is a ton of tribal knowledge over there on all things early 911.

TheSt|G 08-26-2015 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zedsn (Post 8768804)
I just called automotion where I got my 17" wheels and a 16x8 is 20 pounds right from the horses mouth.
Pelican claims they are 22 pounds.

Ayles 08-26-2015 03:52 PM
I can weigh a 16x9 Euromeister tonight on my bathroom scale and report back. The wheels I have, have not been balanced or mounted so no valve stems or wheel weights.

manbridge 74 08-26-2015 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Egan (Post 8767794)
manbridge 74: Thanks for looking at my post and responding. Two other individuals who have physically looked at the wheels told me they were "real", may I ask what convinced you of the originality of them? Thanks, Jim
The metal grain appears like every other forging from the Fuch line. Nice and smooth.

I also doubt there would've been a market back then for fake 4.5s. Certainly not low weight forgings.

HarryD 08-26-2015 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryD (Post 8768826)
Jim. I have no idea if your wheels are genuine Fuchs. However, I find it disturbing that you do not include a picture of the cast in mark that looks like a fox head (which is their symbol). Typically, high end manufacturers include trademark Item like that to help detect fakes.

If it was me, I would post at the Early 911S Registry and give them a chance to tear you apart. There is a ton of tribal knowledge over there on all things early 911.
From the Early 911S Registry Forum:

Fuchs 15 x 4.5 part number 901.361.012.01

pair 5.5 x 15 fuchs dated 3/68

Note the stampings.

whiterabbit 08-26-2015 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G (Post 8761382)
While we are on the topic, I have no idea why people are charging the same or more for 16x8s than the cost new from Porsche right now. It's absurd, especially when you factor in the risk of wear/damage/stress/every idiot's chroming and polish job.
Its the date codes for concurs etc. Look at the value of a 76 930 for example. Most owners want date code matching 16x8s when they restore them.

TheSt|G 08-26-2015 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterabbit (Post 8769043)
Its the date codes for concurs etc. Look at the value of a 76 930 for example. Most owners want date code matching 16x8s when they restore them.
That makes sense for the ones people haven't botched with chrome/polish/whatever, but prices in general are nutty.

manbridge 74 08-26-2015 06:18 PM
Eight worn lug nuts says those 4.5s are real!

Jim, weigh one of them.

HARVEYWEIDMAN 08-26-2015 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 75-911S (Post 4982485)
Is there an easy way to tell a real Fuchs wheel from one of the replicas?

Jack
The simple answer is yes.
The forged wheel is much thinner in the spoke areas.
The cast wheels are very thick when you look at the back of the spokes.

The read from the German is mostly spot on except the 4.5X15 replicas have been out for many years. From the front very close but the insides are very thick and machined rather than forged looking angles.

And Fuchs can still make the late (flat) 15s and 16s if enough are back ordered.
But early (deep-901 style) wheels not so much......more of a liability problem I was told.
HTH
H

HARVEYWEIDMAN 08-26-2015 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Egan (Post 8761210)
I have a set of 4.5x15 "Fuchs" wheels that I bought used in 1985 to put on my 1966 911. I've been trying to determine if they are "originals". I've read the above and there seems to be some doubt about the markings on the really early wheels; I've just cleaned my wheels up and they show the following markings, all the markings are in the indent nearest the wheel opening: three of the wheels have "770" stamped in the indent and one has "670", two have the letter "F" stamped in an adjacent indent, one has the numeral "0" at that location, three have the number "41" stamped in a recessed "oval". All stampings appear to be from the same "script". Any ideas on what this means in determining originality?
Jim,
The wheels in your photographs are Fuchs.
The markings are consistent with 4.5X15 replacement wheels available through the parts dept. They were made well into 1970....maybe later but the latest that I have on file is 7/70.
BTW, if they are for sale let me know.
HTH
H

HarryD 08-26-2015 07:39 PM
Harvey:
Thank you for "weighing in".

I am surprised by the lack of the Fuchs Logo. It would have made me suspicious.


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