SCs and Carreras, what should I look for?

[maxman]

Hello all,

I am looking for either an SC, or a Carrera (84-89) coupe. I absolutely love the body styling of those years, and I love the engineering and class that a 911 has to offer.

First off, other than the difference in transmission, and the extra .2 liters in the Carrera, does anyone think I should go with one over the other (SC or Carrera.)

My next question is about miles... The 911s of this vintage that I have found with low miles (<60k) seem to be pretty pricey, for me anyway. I have seen a lot of these cars with 100k to 150k miles on them, that have had engine rebuilds. Should I steer away from rebuilt motors?

What are some things I should watch out for? What pitfalls exist in this vintage?

My final question, is about price. I would love to get in to a 911 for $15,000 or under, but I don't want a project. I want a solid machine in great shape. Is this reasonable? If not, what should I expect to pay?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

~Max

[Dueller]

Start here...

Pelican Parts: 911 FAQ Version 2.2

[James Brown]

why have a carrera when you can have a SUPER CARRERA! 15K will get a good SC or a ok Carrera

Both are great, both need work, both have qurks. But if it were me.....get a Carrera (coupe) and a spare DME relay...

[maxman]

DME relay?

[Dueller]

Max, it might be helpful if you explained what the car will be used for (daily driver, weekend toy, track car, etc), what your mechanical aptitude is (do your own maintenance/repairs, have a mechanic), what you expect from the car (cold a/c, long road trips), what your experience is with 911;s (ridden in a friends, test drove one, just admired them fro afar), and something about what you have previously owned and liked. Do you wannt to show it or just drive it?

With a budget of 15K you can find any number of very nice cars...probably can find a pretty pristine SC or a decent 84-86 Carrera with 100-125K miles...might take a little more for a G50 transmission cars of 87-89. The right one can give you years of service...not uncommon to see 200K+ miles will relative reliability. But normal wear and tear items will require not inexpensive maintenance ...e,g, $2000 clutch jobs, top end rebuilds at $4K-up,

THUS IT IS OFTEN QUIPPED THAT EVERY 911 IS A $20k CAR,,,,BUY ONE FOR $11k AND YOU'LL PUT $9k IN IT THE FIRST YEAR OR SO MAKING IT RIGHT AND RELIABLE. oR JUST BUY A PRISTINE $20k CAR WITH EVERYTHING RIGHT ALREADY. On the other hand people have bougfht nice 911's that needed little and were uber reliable on the cheap (relatively speaking)

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about in the for sale section here...I don't know the seller or trhe car but you get the idea: 87 Carrera low miles excellent condition

Ooops...didn't mean to shout

Give us a little more info on what and why a 911.

[chocolatelab]

+1 on Dueller comment

you should find a great car under 15k

i did, but now i cant stop fooling with it

ill have 20 in before long

there was a really nice 911 in the cars for sale section

i think its in so cal, some sort of blue

it had lots of the stuff done you would end up wanting to do

i'd go through all the old cars for sale posts.

bet you could find something really nice

[maxman]

Jim,

I'm looking for a car that I would drive on the nice days to put a smile on my face It would be in the same category as my motorcycle, not relied on for daily driving, but enjoyed whenever possible. I live in Minnesota, so driving a 911 year round is not really possible. Also, I know the 911 is not the car to hop in with your coffee and drive to work. I'd let it warm up, put on some driving shoes, and go for a 1 or 2 hour drive. On the weekends, I might take it to the north shore (6 hours), but I won't being driving this thing cross country. This wound enter the garage with my '04 Maxima daily driver, and '02 SV 650 bike.

I have been admiring the 911s for years, and recently drove and '82 SC. It was exactly like I though it would be. Loud, cold blooded, difficulty to shift, a little cramped, and a whole lot of fun. It brought back memories of my '88 BMW 535is, only better. The truth is an SC would be slower than my Maxima and SV 650, so I'm not in it for the speed. I'm in it for the classic 911 style line, the nice linear power curve, the cling to the turns suspension and the lovely idle sound.

As far as my mechanical aptitude goes, I'm not about to rebuild a motor, but I'm comfortable changing oil, doing spark plugs, fluids, filters, those kind of things. I don't mind tinkering, like getting to the bottom of an electrical problem or something like that.

Thanks!

~Max

[TT Oversteer]

Both SC's and 3.2 Carrera's are great cars. I prefer the more modern and sophisticated Motronic fuel injection system of the 3.2 over the CIS injection on the SC's. Generally newer is better with respect to comfort and reliability but not necesarily lightness/nimbleness/rawness.

I would say try to find the car with the best service records, history and condition that fits your budget rather than fixate on the differences between SC's and Carreras.

I have an older '77 chassis with an '89 Carrera 3.2 engine for a great combination of lightness/quickness and reliability................but that's a whole different can of worms!

[Dueller]

From you description an SC would be right up your alley. They're a bit more primitive than the carrerra's but not much. They're lighter and rev a bit quicker than the carrera. Living up north, a functioning a/c is not an absolute necessity. They only are ma5rginal in sc and carrera's without great luck or a lot of tweaking. By now many sc's and carrera's have the ac removed to shed 70 or so pounds.

SC's properly maintained are bulletproof. I have a friend who has an 82 SC with close to 300K on the clock and its only had one clutch replacement. Engoine never opened up. His car is lighter and more tossable than my...they are pretty close speed wise but I catch him when I stretch the legs on the Carrera. But his is a joy to drive because its a bit more rev happy than my car...light and more nimble.

If I were you I'd enjoy the shopping process and budget about $12-13K. Leave a littel cash aside for upgrades...misc repairs. By all means when you've found one you like, get a PPI ferom an independent shop. Biggest nightmare would be discovering broken head studs....not a fatal problem but a pricey one since you have to have the heads pulled to do it. And while you're in there you'll wanna do a valve job, and maybe re-ring it and while the engine's out might as well throw in a new clutch and what about a lightened flywheel...ydadadadada. See what happens? LOL

Keep an eye open in the classifieds here...look for longtime Pelicans with several hundred posts and see there ads. Go to the classifieds and search "911 SC' and look at what's been on the market for the last 2 years or so....Pelican's are pretty candid (and often overly critical of their cars.

Don't get in a hurry....enjoy shopping.

[Dueller]

I believe this car went for under 13K...if it was as clean and mechanically sound as it appeared was a good buy, It truly is a buyer's market right now.

79 911SC Targa - white - $13500 in Tampa

[signature65]

The purchase price is the cheapest thing about these cars. Be prepared for very expensive parts and labor. Its just the way it is. A headlight for a normal car is $20, for a Porsche its $200. Dont fight it......just accept it and learn to love the quirks.

[Dueller]

Max...let me guess....you've autoX before and/or have been to a track day with you SV, right? What mods do you have on your bike? Frame sliders? Do you know what a "chicken stripe" is?

If yes to any of those questions, run away from a 911....you'll be a track junkie before you know it!!!!

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

First, get Peter Zimmerman's book "Buying a Used Porsche 911" (or something close to that).

[nineball]

it all depends on what you can do and what you are willing to spend if you can't. shop around. i got an 83 sc with 106k for $9500 a few months back but i have also put a few thousand into it in the 2+ months i have owned it. if i had taken it to a shop and let them do everything it would be in the $6-7k range to date but doing most of the work myself and with a mechanic from my local pca i have saved around $4k of those costs.

[twistoffat]

Try this site. Buyers guide with description on what to look for, problem areas etc etc

Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 (1984 - 1989)

[maxman]

Jim,

Actually, I have never auto crossed, or had the SV on a track. Also, I have no clue what a "chicken stripe" is, but now I am curious.

What are some easy ways to tell how much I will need to put into a car after I buy it. Should I look for things like top-end rebuilds already being done, or steer more towards a low mile car with kick-butt maintenance records.

[Dueller]

LOL...chicken stripe is reference to wear on a sport bike rear tire. If you have a rear tire that does not show wear over to the sidewalls; i.e., the only place the tire is worn is down the center, that is a "chicken stripe" becaus eyou're too chicken to lean the bike in the turns.

Go by a good bookstore and look in the transoportation section for buyer's guides for 911's. That will be a starting point. Shop around and ask questions...true entusiasts, whether performance oriented owners or collector purists love to talk about these cars. Drive a few or at least go for some rides with owners. See if there is an active Pcar club or group in your area. Stop by an independent Porsche repair shop in your area. Be candid with them...i.e., you don't know a whole lot about them but you're looking for a well maintained SC or Carrera.

As far as driving them, keep in mind a worn out 911 will likely drive more crisply and be more responsive than what you're used to. A well maintained model will blow you away.

Sc's in particular and to some extent Carrera's have pretty much reached the bottom of their depreciastion curve. So if you pay a reasonable price for one that is in good shape and maintained you'll never loose a whole lot if you tire of it and decide to sell it a few years down the road. You won't likely make any money and you'll spend a bit on one over the course of ownership with routine maintenance/repairs/personalization.

As far as mileage don't be afraid of a 100K+ model IF its been taken care of. Truth be known I'd probably prefer a higher mileage car that may have even been used on the track a bit by an entusiast rather than some garage queen low mileqge car that has been sitting up for years by a owner who knows little about these cars. A comprehensive set of maintenance records is a huge plus.

Beyond the obvious things to look for in any used car, major concerns should be rust, broken head studs, valve guide wear (largely Carreras), compression/leakdown numbers, oil consumption, chain tensioners (SC's), pop off valve/air box mods (Sc's), transmiision synchros. All of these items can be detected by a good PPI.

These cars are 20-32 years old so some things will just wear out over time: Suspension bushings, struts/shocks, brake rotors, etc. They are stout little cars that are way over-engineered for durability but relatively simple. With the help of this board and fellow entusiasts you'll be suprised at the amount of repairs or maintenance you can do youiself with just a smidgn of mechanical aptitude...part of the joy of ownership for some. But if it has been rebuilt it is absolutely imperative that whoever did the rebuild is a specialist as opposed to some shade tree mechanic used to rebuilding chevy truck motors.

[gtc]

If you have cash in hand, a nice condition stock Carrera for $10-12k is not out of the question.
100-150k miles is nothing to be afraid of... i bought mine at 180k, and it's still going strong at 255k. My only major service has been replacing two syncros at 205k.

[nineball]

Originally Posted by maxman

What are some easy ways to tell how much I will need to put into a car after I buy it. Should I look for things like top-end rebuilds already being done, or steer more towards a low mile car with kick-butt maintenance records.

A comprehensive record is not everything. Keep in mind that these cars are 20-30 years old and lots of items need to be replaced. I have a folder full of items that were done to my car and it still needed a lot. Rubber/plastic/metal items can only physically last so long.

I think my best advice to you would be to start looking for a car. Hard. Get out there and drive as many as you can. Don't feel intimidated that it is a Porsche - it's still just 4 wheel and some metal. Once you find one you like the next step is to have a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) done by a qualified mechanic. You can usually find one by getting in touch with your local chapter of the PCA or this board. There are a few threads on here that give you a list of things to check during the PPI, but even with all of those checked you still may (will :P) need to replace some items on the car. It's inevitable.

[logan2z]

Originally Posted by gtc

100-150k miles is nothing to be afraid of...

The only thing that makes me a bit cautious about higher mileage Carreras is valve guide wear if the car hasn't had a top-end rebuild. I don't know if this issue has been blown out of proportion on internet forums, but that does seem to be one area of concern for these cars. And at ~$8K repair cost, I hesitate somewhat when considering a Carrera over 100K miles.